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Post by enigma on Apr 17, 2012 2:45:42 GMT -5
In answer to your first question, I don't know. It's not something I think about, how long am I willing to persue this? It's genuinely just happening whether I like it or not. But in honesty, for the frustration I feel I'm not that keen on a lifetime of this no. What can I do about it though? Well....firstly, the idea that its ''genuinely just happening whether I like it or not'' is really just another non-dual idea. You looked closely and saw that you are not keen on a lifetime of this. What that means is that you get to PLAY with the idea of preference/choice (regardless of whether or not there is a choice). If you look closely you may also see that you are not quite ready to be totally finished with the seeking/exploration right now....and that is absolutely fine. You are not ready to be an 'enlightened being' (whatever that is). What would be helpful in my opinion is to get clear as to when you want this game/exploration to be finished. Somewhere between now and a lifetime, yes? 10 years? 5 years? A year? As I said, intuitively I felt a year, but thats just my guess. Establishing how long you want the process to take, takes a little bit of the drama out of the game (which is what you want right?). It takes a little bit of the helplessness/victimhood out of the game. Sometimes it is helpful to play with the idea that we DO have a say in the creative process. After all, we are the creative process in action. We are not separate from that creative process at all. Yes, from my perspective it's useful to simply be clear that she doesn't really want what she thinks she wants. Ideally, then, even the frustration has nothing to hold onto. The other day Marie and I had our first official squirrel satsang of the season, though the ducks were a little miffed. The question was asked, 'Buddha had something to turn to. If there's no God to turn to, what do I turn to?' I said Buddha didn't turn to anything. How can I tell you what to turn to when you are the creative principle of life itself? In one of my poems I asked 'What sorcery is this that clips the wings of angels and makes fools of Gods?' It's a dangerous sort of nonduality to talk about but at least it doesn't create imaginary victims. |
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Post by enigma on Apr 17, 2012 2:47:57 GMT -5
What does this good work consist in? It's just a monotonous repetition of the same worn out stuff, which is a common knowledge for everybody. How on earth can it be useful, helpful and senseful? Gosh, it is so cheap, that nobody buys it, unless they are frightened about God who turns out to be not a good old man with a beard. De nada! Look at the world around you! It is full of life, full of wonders ! This is THIS. Everybody knows about that except you. Experiences are what you need, even if they are illusional. They will inspire you, will awaken you, will help you stop muttering all this nonsense. Who are you responding to? |
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Post by relinquish on Apr 17, 2012 2:51:27 GMT -5
What does this good work consist in? It's just a monotonous repetition of the same worn out stuff, which is a common knowledge for everybody. How on earth can it be useful, helpful and senseful? Gosh, it is so cheap, that nobody buys it, unless they are frightened about God who turns out to be not a good old man with a beard. De nada! Look at the world around you! It is full of life, full of wonders ! This is THIS. Everybody knows about that except you. Experiences are what you need, even if they are illusional. They will inspire you, will awaken you, will help you stop muttering all this nonsense. In what way is the 'non-dual perspective' common knowledge to everybody? Last time I checked, the vast majority of humanity KNOWS without question that separation is the nature of reality, and that we are all real selves who are faced with the 'problem of life' that we need to solve in order to be happy. Some of us here on this forum and others scattered across the world now and throughout history have realized that this is simply not true. We have realized that what we once refered to when we said 'me' or 'I'; that individual self that moves with its own momentum in the world that is other than itself, never actually existed. Some of us who have realized this feel utterly compelled to share this discovery with others so that they may experience the absolute freedom of 'no-self'. I know I do, but I don't know why.  |
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Post by enigma on Apr 17, 2012 3:01:06 GMT -5
What does this good work consist in? It's just a monotonous repetition of the same worn out stuff, which is a common knowledge for everybody. How on earth can it be useful, helpful and senseful? Gosh, it is so cheap, that nobody buys it, unless they are frightened about God who turns out to be not a good old man with a beard. De nada! Look at the world around you! It is full of life, full of wonders ! This is THIS. Everybody knows about that except you. Experiences are what you need, even if they are illusional. They will inspire you, will awaken you, will help you stop muttering all this nonsense. In what way is the 'non-dual perspective' common knowledge to everybody? Last time I checked, the vast majority of humanity KNOWS without question that separation is the nature of reality, and that we are all real selves who are faced with the 'problem of life' that we need to solve in order to be happy. Some of us here on this forum and others scattered across the world now and throughout history have realized that this is simply not true. We have realized that what we once refered to when we said 'me' or 'I'; that individual self that moves with its own momentum in the world that is other that itself, never actually existed. Some of us who have realized this feel utterly compelled to share this discovery with others so they may experience the absolute freedom of 'no-self'. I know I do, but I don't know why. I don't really know what she was saying. All I heard was the usual contradictions: "common knowledge for everybody...... it is so cheap, that nobody buys it" |
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Post by arisha on Apr 17, 2012 3:07:54 GMT -5
You only have become even more illusioned with Oneness.
So, you think you are free, and this is the highest criterium.
Did you help anybody by being, ( illusionally ), free?
Even priorities are wrong with those who accept this teaching.
You are not free, and never will. First of all because you are again only about you and yourself. When you forget about yourself and turn your attention to others, then you'll be free.
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Post by relinquish on Apr 17, 2012 3:11:28 GMT -5
You only have become even more illusioned with Oneness. So, you think you are free, and this is the highest criterium. Did you help anybody by being, ( illusionally ), free? Even priorities are wrong with those who accept this teaching. You are not free, and never will. First of all because you are again only about you and yourself. When you forget about yourself and turn your attention to others, then you'll be free. I'm trying to help you Arisha, but alas, to no avail...  |
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Post by arisha on Apr 17, 2012 3:14:56 GMT -5
Don't try to help me, choose somebody else and help. But help not with what YOU want to help, help with what the OTHER needs to be helped about.
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Post by relinquish on Apr 17, 2012 3:29:42 GMT -5
Don't try to help me, choose somebody else and help. But help not with what YOU want to help, help with what the OTHER needs to be helped about. Well, of course there is nothing wrong with what you are saying there. Not at all. But the fact remains that the absolute truth of a person of higher morality and a person of zero morality is exactly the same. We're all made of the same stuff. All the elements our bodies are comprised of were formed in cores of stars, billions of years ago. And one other thing, everyone who has ever served anyone that they didn't have to, even if it was very difficult to serve them, they did because deep down it made them happy to help them. Like it or not, it all comes down to selfishness in the end. This is not a bad thing. |
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Post by arisha on Apr 17, 2012 3:34:30 GMT -5
Doesn't matter! Still it will be better if you help, and not just talk. Or deep down you are selfish and don't want to help? Then what is the use of your talking?
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Post by relinquish on Apr 17, 2012 3:41:26 GMT -5
Doesn't matter! Still it will be better if you help, and not just talk. Or deep down you are selfish and don't want to help? Then what is the use of your talking? You don't know me, Arisha. How do you know I don't help others when ever and where ever I can? |
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Post by andrew on Apr 17, 2012 3:49:50 GMT -5
Well....firstly, the idea that its ''genuinely just happening whether I like it or not'' is really just another non-dual idea. You looked closely and saw that you are not keen on a lifetime of this. What that means is that you get to PLAY with the idea of preference/choice (regardless of whether or not there is a choice). If you look closely you may also see that you are not quite ready to be totally finished with the seeking/exploration right now....and that is absolutely fine. You are not ready to be an 'enlightened being' (whatever that is). What would be helpful in my opinion is to get clear as to when you want this game/exploration to be finished. Somewhere between now and a lifetime, yes? 10 years? 5 years? A year? As I said, intuitively I felt a year, but thats just my guess. Establishing how long you want the process to take, takes a little bit of the drama out of the game (which is what you want right?). It takes a little bit of the helplessness/victimhood out of the game. Sometimes it is helpful to play with the idea that we DO have a say in the creative process. After all, we are the creative process in action. We are not separate from that creative process at all. Yes, from my perspective it's useful to simply be clear that she doesn't really want what she thinks she wants. Ideally, then, even the frustration has nothing to hold onto. The other day Marie and I had our first official squirrel satsang of the season, though the ducks were a little miffed. The question was asked, 'Buddha had something to turn to. If there's no God to turn to, what do I turn to?' I said Buddha didn't turn to anything. How can I tell you what to turn to when you are the creative principle of life itself? In one of my poems I asked 'What sorcery is this that clips the wings of angels and makes fools of Gods?' It's a dangerous sort of nonduality to talk about but at least it doesn't create imaginary victims. Yes. Cool |
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Post by arisha on Apr 17, 2012 3:53:31 GMT -5
Doesn't matter! Still it will be better if you help, and not just talk. Or deep down you are selfish and don't want to help? Then what is the use of your talking? You don't know me, Arisha. How do you know I don't help others when ever and where ever I can? You've just said that all comes down to selfishness at the end, and help is nothing else but manifestation of this selfishness which exists deep down in every person. This was your commentary about help with what OTHER needs, and not the kind of help YOU choose for the other. |
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Post by relinquish on Apr 17, 2012 3:55:58 GMT -5
You've just said that all comes down to selfishness at the end, and help is nothing else but manifestation of this selfishness which exists deep down in every person. This was your commentary about help with what OTHER needs, not the kind of help YOU choose for the other. Again, why do you automatically assume that the only help I offer is a help of my choosing? I'm not just talking about this forum, of course. |
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Post by arisha on Apr 17, 2012 4:02:04 GMT -5
Don't try to help me, choose somebody else and help. But help not with what YOU want to help, help with what the OTHER needs to be helped about. Well, of course there is nothing wrong with what you are saying there. Not at all. But the fact remains that the absolute truth of a person of higher morality and a person of zero morality is exactly the same. We're all made of the same stuff. All the elements our bodies are comprised of were formed in cores of stars, billions of years ago. And one other thing, everyone who has ever served anyone that they didn't have to, even if it was very difficult to serve them, they did because deep down it made them happy to help them. Like it or not, it all comes down to selfishness in the end. This is not a bad thing. It could be much more useful to discuss the stuff people are made of, in order to do something about it. Much more useful, and helpful, and senseful, than the talks about Oneness. It could help do something really useful for the OTHER. And all those talks are just for satisfying the Self, for pleasing yourself, and the most stupid wasting of time one has ever seen. |
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Post by arisha on Apr 17, 2012 4:08:29 GMT -5
You've just said that all comes down to selfishness at the end, and help is nothing else but manifestation of this selfishness which exists deep down in every person. This was your commentary about help with what OTHER needs, not the kind of help YOU choose for the other. Again, why do you automatically assume that the only help I offer is a help of my choosing? I'm not just talking about this forum, of course. Because you have shown that clearly enough. |
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