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Post by esponja on Apr 17, 2012 19:41:57 GMT -5
Now I see conflict in advice, from ZD saying I have to be warrior-like, maybe for years and be in the moment (like Tolle) or Enigma and others saying I only think I want it but equally it is possible right here right now, but I have to be sure although I don't have a choice, Andrew saying I need to set myself a goal etc etc and I know it's like anything, one size does not fit all...but right here right now I am sincere in this...whatever the hell you want to call it. Throw all of our advice out. You might be surprised to find out that you haven't spent even a moment taking your own. The intelligence that's already present within you. It HAS to come from YOU. Yes maybe you're right. I feel as though I just spilt my guts out for nothing so bit embarrased. Maybe I'll just give this forum a miss for a while. |
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Post by esponja on Apr 17, 2012 19:47:54 GMT -5
Now I see conflict in advice, from ZD saying I have to be warrior-like, maybe for years and be in the moment (like Tolle) or Enigma and others saying I only think I want it but equally it is possible right here right now, but I have to be sure although I don't have a choice, Andrew saying I need to set myself a goal etc etc and I know it's like anything, one size does not fit all...but right here right now I am sincere in this...whatever the hell you want to call it. Hey Esponja, not that it really matters but just wanted to clarify that in this instance I wasnt particularly suggesting to set a goal as such, I was suggesting more just to take a close look within at what you want. Sorry remembered that from last time. I am looking within Andrew, am not liking any of my minds contents, which is my split mind at best. I've struggled with the same crappy dramas for years and am a little suprised at how this negative has reared it's ugly head with full force. I even picked up one of my old positive thinking books after not touching any all year..this is weird. |
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Post by esponja on Apr 17, 2012 19:56:12 GMT -5
On the selfishness bit from zen stillness and silence: Struggling a bit with this Jasonl. As a mind, what I notice about myself is that I think when i want to. -If we watch thought we can't control it or know where it arises from, it just appears right? So how do you think when you want to? I think the same can be said for pretty much everyone, except for those who delude themselves into thinking that they dont want to be thinking when they clearly are thinking otherwise. -Again, there's a choice? I suppose it can be a hard pill to swallow to think that at times, we actually want to suffer, and the core of the desire for that experience, the experience of suffering, of being separate, deluded, mind identified, is simply a desire to not want to feel a certain way. - I am just not at the stage where I see this. I don't want to suffer and I don't want to believe in thoughts, I want peace. These thoughts and feelings are happening, I am creating them to experience, - maybe on some Godly level this is apparent to you, but to the average Joe this is not the case. Perhaps I'm just not conscious enough yet? (Oh there goes thought, I'm not good enough) and I delusionally believe that I shouldnt be creating them, or better yet, that im not creating them and some other mind is, and of course finally, that i can control a spontaneous aspect of the creative principle while identified as that very same aspect. God's taking a piss off the balcony and the piss is telling the wind which way it wants it to blow. That's where the suffering comes in and the disharmony arises in the human experience, the idea that we can control ourselves, our experiences, our own creation. - so we can't? What I though...confused now If a saber tooth tiger walked into the room right now, id be hard pressed to say that i wouldnt drop a terd in my pants. I had a big dinner and one is on deck. But my point is, the desire for life is as natural as it gets, and in the end, I suppose so is the willingness to die, to go away, to be erased from existence. I guess, in a way, every thought anyone has ever had is entirely selfish, entirely driven by the dynamics of being a personally conditioned mind geared to think and act precisely how you want to think and act, and that's all good unless you yourself say otherwise. Now if you'll excuse me hehe... |
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Post by enigma on Apr 17, 2012 20:05:01 GMT -5
I'd say you know quite a bit less than most, which makes you a good one to listen to. ;D Lol you stupid butthurt child. People know what you are trying to do here. Have fun jacking off with yourself for yourself to yourself. You can't touch me, but I can clearly touch you. How odd. Where did that come from? Did you think I was insulting Silence? Why would I want to touch you? |
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Post by enigma on Apr 17, 2012 20:48:48 GMT -5
-If we watch thought we can't control it or know where it arises from, it just appears right? So how do you think when you want to? Jason is correct that thoughts follow your personal interest. Thoughts conform to your personal dynamics, which is why we challenge beliefs and face fears and such. If it all just showed up randomly, what would be the point of clarity? It's also true that you can't control thought directly because thoughts form in conscious awareness first, and then they are observed. By the time you witness a thought, it's too late to control it. You can choose to not follow it, but whether or not you follow is determined by the same internal dynamics that formed it. (The thought to follow or not is yet another thought that arose first, and then was witnessed.) So the reason we say you can't control thoughts is not because they impose themselves on you from 'outside' but because the nature of thought formation is such that they must form first, before you can even be consciously aware of them, obviously so. They arise from your own conditioning, and so we take a look see at that conditioning and see if we can dissolve the illusions from which those problematic thoughts arise. In general, peeps don't take that process very seriously, but this is part of self inquiry, and it works. |
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Post by esponja on Apr 17, 2012 21:02:55 GMT -5
-If we watch thought we can't control it or know where it arises from, it just appears right? So how do you think when you want to? Jason is correct that thoughts follow your personal interest. Thoughts conform to your personal dynamics, which is why we challenge beliefs and face fears and such. If it all just showed up randomly, what would be the point of clarity? It's also true that you can't control thought directly because thoughts form in conscious awareness first, and then they are observed. By the time you witness a thought, it's too late to control it. You can choose to not follow it, but whether or not you follow is determined by the same internal dynamics that formed it. (The thought to follow or not is yet another thought that arose first, and then was witnessed.) So the reason we say you can't control thoughts is not because they impose themselves on you from 'outside' but because the nature of thought formation is such that they must form first, before you can even be consciously aware of them, obviously so. They arise from your own conditioning, and so we take a look see at that conditioning and see if we can dissolve the illusions from which those problematic thoughts arise. In general, peeps don't take that process very seriously, but this is part of self inquiry, and it works. Right makes sense thanks for explaining. So can we dissolve my illusions or am I a lost cause? |
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Post by therealfake on Apr 17, 2012 21:15:16 GMT -5
Yes, there is a belief that states that there is no world out there. And that the objective world is really all in our head or rather our minds. Of course that too, is just another thought of the mind. Yea its another thought/belief of the mind but this isn't to say it isn't created, put in place and dynamically experienced, without a purpose. Typically there is an emotional protection variable somewhere within the dynamics of the thought processes which keep the belief in place, which is why I think it can be helpful to become conscious of the desire to avoid certain feelings. If the world is an illusion, then to some extent, we are safe from our own delusional interpretations to the extent that we think that we are, which is to say, not completely. We have no control over how we interpret what unfolds, which isn't to say certain incentives and conditioning dont dictate those interpretations. If the saber tooth tiger came in, I would experience fear because that's what i would be geared up to want to feel. Or who knows, maybe id say fck it, i had a good run and what better way to go then getting mauled gladiator status by a beast. We never really know. What can be known, or understood i suppose, is that on the level of spontaneous creation, thought and feeling, as mind, we are always creating precisely what we want to even when we are splitting ourselves into thinking otherwise. Sometimes, we create beliefs to shield ourselves from feeling a certain way, which likewise leaves the "desire for control" as part of the experience of being a mind identified mind (mind which thinks it can control what it creates), which has the curious charm of sometimes not manifesting in pleasurable ways. It seems to me, that what keeps the world in chains, is a persons belief in a separate individual, living in a world of otherness or objects. I see that the way most people experience life, not as being self or mind created, but as oh well, s.hit happens. And most folks would rather question any sense of purpose in their experiences, than believe that there was a higher purpose for what was being experienced. I see the thoughts we have as engendering self importance, and so illusions, or giraffing, are as potent in there effects as the truth is. It is only when the source of belief is questioned that the hope for freedom can manifest into the idea of a self created reality. When creation or purpose, is shifted back to the source, anyone is free to change his mind, and all his thoughts will change with it. To change your mind means you have changed the source of all ideas that you think or have ever thought or will ever think. Resulting in a new interpretation of that which is unfolding. PS: If a Sabre Tooth Tiger walked into the room I would laugh, cus they've been extinct for thousands of years... ;D |
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Post by zendancer on Apr 17, 2012 21:17:39 GMT -5
Jason is correct that thoughts follow your personal interest. Thoughts conform to your personal dynamics, which is why we challenge beliefs and face fears and such. If it all just showed up randomly, what would be the point of clarity? It's also true that you can't control thought directly because thoughts form in conscious awareness first, and then they are observed. By the time you witness a thought, it's too late to control it. You can choose to not follow it, but whether or not you follow is determined by the same internal dynamics that formed it. (The thought to follow or not is yet another thought that arose first, and then was witnessed.) So the reason we say you can't control thoughts is not because they impose themselves on you from 'outside' but because the nature of thought formation is such that they must form first, before you can even be consciously aware of them, obviously so. They arise from your own conditioning, and so we take a look see at that conditioning and see if we can dissolve the illusions from which those problematic thoughts arise. In general, peeps don't take that process very seriously, but this is part of self inquiry, and it works. Right makes sense thanks for explaining. So can we dissolve my illusions or am I a lost cause? No one with an open mind is a lost cause. Read on: |
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Post by zendancer on Apr 17, 2012 21:19:52 GMT -5
Here's a story. I have made up part of it, but much of it is true.
A woman from Germany, named Gerta (not her real name), grew up imagining that happiness would be meeting a wonderful man (a knight in shining armor), getting married, having children, and living an enjoyable life. She met such a man, and they got married, but life was not what she expected, and her husband had many faults. They argued and fought and ultimately separated. Gerta became very unhappy, but she decided that she was just unlucky, and that Mr. Right was still out there somewhere waiting to be discovered. A year later she met Mr. Right, but before they could get married she realized that he was really Mr. Wrong, and they split.
At this point she became seriously disillusioned, and she began to wonder what was wrong with her. What was wrong with her view of the world? What should she be doing with her life? She began to question the validity of everything she had assumed about the world, and she began taking self-help courses and studying psychology. Eventually she turned to spirituality, and began studying different religions, hoping to find answers to her many questions.
During her search for answers she met a man who shared her passion for finding the truth. He was not perfect, but she had finally realized that perfection was asking for too much in a human being. He wasn’t perfect, but he was kind, generous, intellectual, and rich, and they shared a great deal in common. Eventually they got married, but after the joy of connubial bliss wore off, they continued on their search for the truth.
Because the man was rich, they were able to investigate dozens of different paths that supposedly would lead them to the truth. They tried yoga, EST, rolfing, primal scream therapy, and lots of other new age therapies. They got psychoanalyzed, counseled, hypnotized, reflexologized, and past life regressioned. They had their fortunes read, and visited lots of spiritual advisors, but they found no lasting satisfaction.
At some point in their search they heard about non-duality, and learned about many world-famous teachers who had supposedly become enlightened. They read about Ramana and Nisargadatta and many other dead masters, but their interest quickly shifted to masters who were still alive. They concluded that a living master might be able to enlighten them, and enlightenment was what they set for themselves as their ultimate goal. Enlightenment offered the only hope they could imagine of lasting peace and happiness.
The first master they visited lived in Germany, but when they went to visit him, they were disappointed because he did not live up to their expectations. Worse, he expected them to meditate every day for several hours, and they didn't want to do that. Then they heard about Ramesh Balsekar, who was then 97 years old and living in Bombay. They quickly booked a flight to India and went to visit Ramesh. They stayed at a nearby hotel and visited Ramesh every day for two weeks. Gerta's husband liked Ramesh's teaching very much, but his teaching didn't resonate with Gerta. To her he seemed much too intellectual. Gerta's husband accepted Ramesh as his guru while Gerta was left to fend for herself.
After their two weeks in Bombay, they returned to Germany, but Gerta was deeply disenchanted. Her husband seemed happy reading books by Ramesh, and felt that it was only a matter of time before Ramesh's teachings would lead to his awakening. Gerta, meanwhile, felt all alone and alienated.
One day Gerta was browsing in the non-duality section of her favorite bookstore when she saw a picture of an American guru, a woman named "Gangaji." She picked up the book with Gangaji's picture on the cover and frantically began reading. Within five minutes she knew that she had to meet Gangaji in person, and because she was rich, she intended to do so. She went home, told her husband that she was going to America, and booked a flight to a western state where Gangaji had an upcoming retreat scheduled.
She went to the retreat, and upon seeing Gangaji and listening to her speak instantly fell in love with her. For three days she sat in rapt attention at the satsangs soaking up everything Gangaji was saying. On the fourth day, when Gangaji invited individuals to come on stage and speak with her, Gerta raised her hand and was chosen. She sat down opposite Gangaji and said, "I saw you on the cover of a book in Germany, and I had to come here." Gangaji replied with a laugh, "Well, that was the purpose of the book." The audience laughed, and then Gerta continued, "I knew I had to come here, but now that I'm here I'm totally confused."
Gangaji laughed again and said, "Wonderful! This means that the structures of thought are starting to collapse." Gerta, in an almost painful lament replied, "But I don't understand anything anymore!" Gangaji said, "Yes, and that is wonderful. You no longer understand anything. Can you stay in that not-understanding place without trying to run away from it? Can you BE that not-understanding? Can you allow yourself to be totally confused and totally ignorant?" Gerta nodded her affirmation, but was so overcome with emotion that she began to cry. Gangaji handed her a kleenex, turned to the audience, and said, "Not understanding can be a beautiful thing."
Gerta spent the rest of the retreat in a state of bliss and joy, alternately laughing and
crying. After the retreat ended, she returned to Germany where she told her husband about her amazing experience in America. Her husband asked, "What did you learn?" Gerta replied, "The world is pure love, and I am pure love. Gangaji showed me the truth."
Gerta's husband was very surprised because his wife had never before been so emotional. He began to think that he was missing something important by relying on the teachings of Ramesh. His understanding was dry and intellectual whereas his wife had become vibrantly alive. He began to second-guess his decision to accept Ramesh as his guru.
Gerta lived in a state of bliss for more than a month, but then she began to wonder exactly what she had learned, and how she could transmit her learning and her experiences to other people. She felt that she had attained something monumentally significant in the presence of Gangaji, but as she reflected upon what that attainment might be, she became confused because she didn’t know what it was. She became consumed with doubts. She couldn't explain what had happened, even to herself. As she spent more and more time thinking about her experiences and trying to understand them, her bliss began to evaporate, and as her bliss dissolved, she grew frantic and anxious. She was positive something wonderful had happened, but she didn't know what it was. Within another two weeks, she became depressed and wondered if she had blown a lifetime opportunity. She realized that the old Gerta had returned, and her blissful state of being had disappeared. Whatever she had attained had somehow been lost.
After several weeks of reflectivity and increasing unhappiness, she knew that she must once again go see Gangaji. Her husband was understanding because he could see that the once-vibrant Gerta had been replaced by a severely depressed Gerta. He gave his blessings, Gerta booked a flight, and she flew to a Gangaji retreat in Hawaii. As soon as she arrived, she told some of Gangaji's followers how important it was that she be allowed to talk with Gangaji. Gangaji, however, refused to see her in private. Two days later, during a satsang, Gangaji invited Gerta back onstage with her. As soon as Gerta took her seat, she blurted out the story that was tearing her apart.
She said, "When I was on retreat with you two months ago, I didn;t understand anything. I was totally confused, but I was happy in my confusion and non-understanding. I was happy the whole time I was with you, and I was happy for several weeks after I returned home, but then something happened, and all my happiness went away. Today I'm more confused than ever, but I'm also depressed and full of fear. I don’t know where my happiness went after I went home. What did I do wrong? What must I do to get back the happiness I felt for several weeks?"
Gangaji looked at Gerta and then slowly and seriously asked, "What did you do differently when you went home to your ordinary life than what you did when you were with me two months ago? That is what you need to investigate."
Rather than explain anything, I think I'll leave the story precisely at this point. This is the human drama of the path to enlightenment played out in the role of a real person. What is it that Gerta failed to understand? What was she overlooking? If Gerta asked you to explain how she might escape her predicament, what would you say to her? What could you say that might point her in the direction of freedom?
Here's a story. I have made up part of it, but much of it is true.
A woman from Germany, named Gerta (not her real name), grew up imagining that happiness would be meeting a wonderful man (a knight in shining armor), getting married, having children, and living an enjoyable life. She met such a man, and they got married, but life was not what she expected, and her husband had many faults. They argued and fought and ultimately separated. Gerta became very unhappy, but she decided that she was just unlucky, and that Mr. Right was still out there somewhere waiting to be discovered. A year later she met Mr. Right, but before they could get married she realized that he was really Mr. Wrong, and they split.
At this point she became seriously disillusioned, and she began to wonder what was wrong with her. What was wrong with her view of the world? What should she be doing with her life? She began to question the validity of everything she had assumed about the world, and she began taking self-help courses and studying psychology. Eventually she turned to spirituality, and began studying different religions, hoping to find answers to her many questions.
During her search for answers she met a man who shared her passion for finding the truth. He was not perfect, but she had finally realized that perfection was asking for too much in a human being. He wasn’t perfect, but he was kind, generous, intellectual, and rich, and they shared a great deal in common. Eventually they got married, but after the joy of connubial bliss wore off, they continued on their search for the truth.
Because the man was rich, they were able to investigate dozens of different paths that supposedly would lead them to the truth. They tried yoga, EST, rolfing, primal scream therapy, and lots of other new age therapies. They got psychoanalyzed, counseled, hypnotized, reflexologized, and past life regressioned. They had their fortunes read, and visited lots of spiritual advisors, but they found no lasting satisfaction.
At some point in their search they heard about non-duality, and learned about many world-famous teachers who had supposedly become enlightened. They read about Ramana and Nisargadatta and many other dead masters, but their interest quickly shifted to masters who were still alive. They concluded that a living master might be able to enlighten them, and enlightenment was what they set for themselves as their ultimate goal. Enlightenment offered the only hope they could imagine of lasting peace and happiness.
The first master they visited lived in Germany, but when they went to visit him, they were disappointed because he did not live up to their expectations. Worse, he expected them to meditate every day for several hours, and they didn't want to do that. Then they heard about Ramesh Balsekar, who was then 97 years old and living in Bombay. They quickly booked a flight to India and went to visit Ramesh. They stayed at a nearby hotel and visited Ramesh every day for two weeks. Gerta's husband liked Ramesh's teaching very much, but his teaching didn't resonate with Gerta. To her he seemed much too intellectual. Gerta's husband accepted Ramesh as his guru while Gerta was left to fend for herself.
After their two weeks in Bombay, they returned to Germany, but Gerta was deeply disenchanted. Her husband seemed happy reading books by Ramesh, and felt that it was only a matter of time before Ramesh's teachings would lead to his awakening. Gerta, meanwhile, felt all alone and alienated.
One day Gerta was browsing in the non-duality section of her favorite bookstore when she saw a picture of an American guru, a woman named "Gangaji." She picked up the book with Gangaji's picture on the cover and frantically began reading. Within five minutes she knew that she had to meet Gangaji in person, and because she was rich, she intended to do so. She went home, told her husband that she was going to America, and booked a flight to a western state where Gangaji had an upcoming retreat scheduled.
She went to the retreat, and upon seeing Gangaji and listening to her speak instantly fell in love with her. For three days she sat in rapt attention at the satsangs soaking up everything Gangaji was saying. On the fourth day, when Gangaji invited individuals to come on stage and speak with her, Gerta raised her hand and was chosen. She sat down opposite Gangaji and said, "I saw you on the cover of a book in Germany, and I had to come here." Gangaji replied with a laugh, "Well, that was the purpose of the book." The audience laughed, and then Gerta continued, "I knew I had to come here, but now that I'm here I'm totally confused."
Gangaji laughed again and said, "Wonderful! This means that the structures of thought are starting to collapse." Gerta, in an almost painful lament replied, "But I don't understand anything anymore!" Gangaji said, "Yes, and that is wonderful. You no longer understand anything. Can you stay in that not-understanding place without trying to run away from it? Can you BE that not-understanding? Can you allow yourself to be totally confused and totally ignorant?" Gerta nodded her affirmation, but was so overcome with emotion that she began to cry. Gangaji handed her a kleenex, turned to the audience, and said, "Not understanding can be a beautiful thing."
Gerta spent the rest of the retreat in a state of bliss and joy, and alternatively laughing and
crying. After the retreat ended, she returned to Germany where she told her husband about her amazing experience in America. Her husband asked, "What did you learn?" Gerta replied, "The world is pure love, and I am pure love. Gangaji showed me the truth."
Gerta's husband was very surprised because his wife had never before been so emotional. He began to think that he was missing something important by relying on the teachings of Ramesh. His understanding was dry and intellectual whereas his wife had become vibrantly alive. He began to second-guess his decision to accept Ramesh as his guru.
Gerta lived in a state of bliss for more than a month, but then she began to wonder exactly what she had learned, and how she could transmit her learning and her experiences to other people. She felt that she had attained something monumentally significant in the presence of Gangaji, but as she reflected upon what that attainment might be, she became confused because she didn’t know what it was. She became consumed with doubts. She couldn't explain what had happened, even to herself. As she spent more and more time thinking about her experiences and trying to understand them, her bliss began to evaporate, and as her bliss dissolved, she grew frantic and anxious. She was positive something wonderful had happened, but she didn't know what it was. Within another two weeks, she became depressed and wondered if she had blown a lifetime opportunity. She realized that the old Gerta had returned, and her blissful state of being had disappeared. Whatever she had attained had somehow been lost.
After several weeks of reflectivity and increasing unhappiness, she knew that she must once again go see Gangaji. Her husband was understanding because he could see that the once-vibrant Gerta had been replaced by a severely depressed Gerta. He gave his blessings, Gerta booked a flight, and she flew to a Gangaji retreat in Hawaii. As soon as she arrived, she told some of Gangaji's followers how important it was that she be allowed to talk with Gangaji. Gangaji, however, refused to see her in private. Two days later, during a satsang, Gangaji invited Gerta back onstage with her. As soon as Gerta took her seat, she blurted out the story that was tearing her apart.
She said, "When I was on retreat with you two months ago, I didn;t understand anything. I was totally confused, but I was happy in my confusion and non-understanding. I was happy the whole time I was with you, and I was happy for several weeks after I returned home, but then something happened, and all my happiness went away. Today I'm more confused than ever, but I'm also depressed and full of fear. I don’t know where my happiness went after I went home. What did I do wrong? What must I do to get back the happiness I felt for several weeks?"
Gangaji looked at Gerta and then slowly and seriously asked, "What did you do differently when you went home to your ordinary life than what you did when you were with me two months ago? That is what you need to investigate."
Rather than explain anything, I think I'll leave the story precisely at this point. This is the human drama of the path to enlightenment played out in the role of a real person. What is it that Gerta failed to understand? What was she overlooking? If Gerta asked you to explain how she might escape her predicament, what would you say to her? What could you say that might point her in the direction of freedom?
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Post by silence on Apr 17, 2012 21:24:36 GMT -5
Throw all of our advice out. You might be surprised to find out that you haven't spent even a moment taking your own. The intelligence that's already present within you. It HAS to come from YOU. Yes maybe you're right. I feel as though I just spilt my guts out for nothing so bit embarrased. Maybe I'll just give this forum a miss for a while. The spilling of the guts is great and cathartic and I wouldn't for a moment tell you not to do so. It all has to do with being honest with yourself. You don't need anyone to tell you how to do that. |
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Post by silence on Apr 17, 2012 21:38:11 GMT -5
Hey Esponja, not that it really matters but just wanted to clarify that in this instance I wasnt particularly suggesting to set a goal as such, I was suggesting more just to take a close look within at what you want. Sorry remembered that from last time. I am looking within Andrew, am not liking any of my minds contents, which is my split mind at best. I've struggled with the same crappy dramas for years and am a little suprised at how this negative has reared it's ugly head with full force. I even picked up one of my old positive thinking books after not touching any all year..this is weird. The positive thinking business is premised on the fact that you're supposed to think and feel a certain way. Is that true? Do you actually know how you're supposed to feel? Or is all the drama and suffering around trying to hold the rudder all the time and keep your thoughts/feelings in a narrow zone. |
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Post by silence on Apr 17, 2012 21:47:40 GMT -5
Lol you stupid butthurt child. People know what you are trying to do here. Have fun jacking off with yourself for yourself to yourself. You can't touch me, but I can clearly touch you. How odd. Where did that come from? Did you think I was insulting Silence? Why would I want to touch you? I think it's hilarious how you're a magnet for this kind of thing. I'm sure you've probably grown weary of it by now though. ;D |
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Post by enigma on Apr 17, 2012 21:51:55 GMT -5
Jason is correct that thoughts follow your personal interest. Thoughts conform to your personal dynamics, which is why we challenge beliefs and face fears and such. If it all just showed up randomly, what would be the point of clarity? It's also true that you can't control thought directly because thoughts form in conscious awareness first, and then they are observed. By the time you witness a thought, it's too late to control it. You can choose to not follow it, but whether or not you follow is determined by the same internal dynamics that formed it. (The thought to follow or not is yet another thought that arose first, and then was witnessed.) So the reason we say you can't control thoughts is not because they impose themselves on you from 'outside' but because the nature of thought formation is such that they must form first, before you can even be consciously aware of them, obviously so. They arise from your own conditioning, and so we take a look see at that conditioning and see if we can dissolve the illusions from which those problematic thoughts arise. In general, peeps don't take that process very seriously, but this is part of self inquiry, and it works. Right makes sense thanks for explaining. So can we dissolve my illusions or am I a lost cause? Well, you can, and your openness makes peeps want to assist you. Seems to me like you've been doing pretty well, though maybe it takes a little more patience than you had anticipated. I dunno. |
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Post by lemongrass on Apr 17, 2012 22:17:30 GMT -5
How odd. Where did that come from? Did you think I was insulting Silence? Why would I want to touch you? I think it's hilarious how you're a magnet for this kind of thing. I'm sure you've probably grown weary of it by now though. ;D Speaking of magnets, I'm a magnet for you silence. Pretty much everytime I have started something with another person you butt right in. You can keep doing it though, I'm not weary of your weak attacks. |
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Post by enigma on Apr 17, 2012 22:24:24 GMT -5
How odd. Where did that come from? Did you think I was insulting Silence? Why would I want to touch you? I think it's hilarious how you're a magnet for this kind of thing. I'm sure you've probably grown weary of it by now though. ;D Hehe. It's kinda icky, but at the same time fascinating. Obviously, human nature interests me and so "stupid butthurt child" coming out of nowhere for no apparent reason makes me mucho curious.  |
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