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Post by therealfake on Mar 19, 2012 18:56:21 GMT -5
Thealflake, I know what you're saying. Over the last 6 months I've read enough on non-duality, listened to countless you-tube vids and been to a live Satsang. I've had realizations, I've even seen there's no Me! It's just ridiculous, yet here I am feeling like not much has changed. On a day to day basis the Me is still alive and kicking, so I guess until that realization really kicks in I was kind of looking to do something to help things along. I don't wish for the thoughts to stop (unless that happens on its own), or to be more positive or any of that, I went through all that in my years of Self-Help and got nowhere, so I do understand. Enigma: this part of your post I get and is helpful. The thoughts keep happening because you are interested in the thoughts. It may sound strange that you can be interested in the thoughts and also want to stop them, but this is what the split mind does all the time. Doing battle with the thoughts is very much an interest in the thoughts. You are interested in the thoughts because they seem to be the obstacle in your way, and because they seem to necessary for the continuance of 'you'. Be clear that you aren't fighting anything but the 'you' that you believe yourself to be. There's no mind opposing you. Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=misc&action=display&thread=2087&page=2#ixzz1pbg4y49vThe other advice about the split mind, I wouldn't know what to do with. What I'm trying to say here guys is that I don't think I'm at Level 1, you can be ruthless with me, I want this Me to disappear but it's sticking around. My main issue and why I started this thread was to see where I might be going wrong? I had in my mind that I should be able to focus on a task ATA, washing dishes, peeling potatos, whatever and purely focus on that but I can't for long at all without input from thoughts. Now that does sound like I'm trying to stop thoughts, I'm not am merely following ZDs and other's advice. If peeling potatos I'm watching the knife, feeling the skin, smelling the potatos...being present as possible. Now Jazz, I get what you mean too. Let it all go, I did that for a while too and that was good, almost like the thoughts had no meaning, but they crept back in. So we have Letting Go, Loosing the Self, ATA, Witness thoughts (without judgement), Heal the Split Mind.....! If anyone wants to give me a step by step plan that'd be great. Step 1. Realize the obvious Hopelessness of becoming what you already are. Step 2. Realize the Helplessness of Oneness's imagined self. Step 3. Know that there is nothing to do, nothing to achieve, nothing to heal, nothing to do battle with, nothing to let go of, nothing to lose, and no step by step plan. Step 4. Realize Step 3... ;D Step 5. Just BE nothing, instead of trying to BE something, your already perfect...  |
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Post by esponja on Mar 19, 2012 19:05:37 GMT -5
Thealflake, I know what you're saying. Over the last 6 months I've read enough on non-duality, listened to countless you-tube vids and been to a live Satsang. I've had realizations, I've even seen there's no Me! It's just ridiculous, yet here I am feeling like not much has changed. On a day to day basis the Me is still alive and kicking, so I guess until that realization really kicks in I was kind of looking to do something to help things along. I don't wish for the thoughts to stop (unless that happens on its own), or to be more positive or any of that, I went through all that in my years of Self-Help and got nowhere, so I do understand. Enigma: this part of your post I get and is helpful. The thoughts keep happening because you are interested in the thoughts. It may sound strange that you can be interested in the thoughts and also want to stop them, but this is what the split mind does all the time. Doing battle with the thoughts is very much an interest in the thoughts. You are interested in the thoughts because they seem to be the obstacle in your way, and because they seem to necessary for the continuance of 'you'. Be clear that you aren't fighting anything but the 'you' that you believe yourself to be. There's no mind opposing you. Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=misc&action=display&thread=2087&page=2#ixzz1pbg4y49vThe other advice about the split mind, I wouldn't know what to do with. What I'm trying to say here guys is that I don't think I'm at Level 1, you can be ruthless with me, I want this Me to disappear but it's sticking around. My main issue and why I started this thread was to see where I might be going wrong? I had in my mind that I should be able to focus on a task ATA, washing dishes, peeling potatos, whatever and purely focus on that but I can't for long at all without input from thoughts. Now that does sound like I'm trying to stop thoughts, I'm not am merely following ZDs and other's advice. If peeling potatos I'm watching the knife, feeling the skin, smelling the potatos...being present as possible. Now Jazz, I get what you mean too. Let it all go, I did that for a while too and that was good, almost like the thoughts had no meaning, but they crept back in. So we have Letting Go, Loosing the Self, ATA, Witness thoughts (without judgement), Heal the Split Mind.....! If anyone wants to give me a step by step plan that'd be great. Step 1. Realize the obvious Hopelessness of becoming what you already are. Step 2. Realize the Helplessness of Oneness's imagined self. Step 3. Know that there is nothing to do, nothing to achieve, nothing to heal, nothing to do battle with, nothing to let go of, nothing to lose, and no step by step plan. Step 4. Realize Step 3... ;D Step 5. Just BE nothing, instead of trying to BE something, your already perfect... ☺ I can go with that. Got a question though! Should I abandon ATA and watching thoughts? Also, on a day to day I think I could forget all that and get swept along again... |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Mar 19, 2012 19:34:57 GMT -5
Not sure what this means? I've learned this practice from people who have spent some time in Burma. It is part of the vipassana practice. It is about labelling everything that's going on. The idea is to focus the attention on it as precisely as possible. So, for example, you notice that a thought is coming. So, you just mentally repeat 'thinking, thinking'. Or you notice some emotion, let's say exasperation. So, you label it accordingly. It should be done matter-of-factly, without any judgements, not trying to push anything away, just observing it as a scientist would and naming it as exactly as possible. It should be observed as a process - in its impermanency, i.e. beginning, existing, vanishing, without getting identified with it. I find this to be very useful, especially in some taxing situations. Ordinarily, it usually suffice to notice without labelling but this can be very helpful. Merrick Charlotte Joko Beck taught this to her students. She has a couple of good books. She has a few excellent students too.......... |
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Post by Portto on Mar 19, 2012 19:37:26 GMT -5
If anyone wants to give me a step by step plan that'd be great. 1. Relax all the muscles in your body (legs, abdomen, chest, arms, neck and head) 2. Relax your mind (let your thoughts float unchallenged) 3. Be |
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Post by andrew on Mar 19, 2012 19:54:49 GMT -5
What I'm trying to say here guys is that I don't think I'm at Level 1, you can be ruthless with me, I want this Me to disappear but it's sticking around. Im not sure what you mean when you say you want 'Me to disappear', and it may have been a convenient figure of speech, but presumably you want to be able to recognize when your kids call out to you i.e. when your kids call out to you, you want to be able to recognize 'me' in relation to 'them' and ask them what they want. In some activities it is cool to experience the complete disappearance of 'Me', but in day to day life, it isnt always practical or loving for total disappearance. Some remnant of 'appearance' (as opposed to 'disappearance') can be a good thing. I guess what Im suggesting is that sometimes it is helpful to look clearly at what we really want and expect from this process. |
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Post by therealfake on Mar 19, 2012 19:56:51 GMT -5
Step 1. Realize the obvious Hopelessness of becoming what you already are. Step 2. Realize the Helplessness of Oneness's imagined self. Step 3. Know that there is nothing to do, nothing to achieve, nothing to heal, nothing to do battle with, nothing to let go of, nothing to lose, and no step by step plan. Step 4. Realize Step 3... ;D Step 5. Just BE nothing, instead of trying to BE something, your already perfect... ☺ I can go with that. Got a question though! Should I abandon ATA and watching thoughts? Also, on a day to day I think I could forget all that and get swept along again... The paradox is that Oneness's dream of individuality will take anything that is said and turn it into a doing. It's the doing, that gets in the way of simply being. There is no possible way for anyone to wake up by doing something. What if you decided to simply be present, and 'do' nothing? |
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Post by zendancer on Mar 19, 2012 20:10:41 GMT -5
...also it's really nice to see all these replies when I wake up, people who genuinely want to help- so thanks. Merrick, sorry I didn't reply to your Labelling Method. Sounds interesting but perhaps another practice? I used to meditate back in my trying to change my world days, it wasn't really for me though, at least now I'm at peace with my life..I actually love it and honestly never been happier, I guess I don't believe in these thoughts as much as I used to and recognise what my mind tries to do (ie cause probs). But there is one belief that keeps arising, it normally goes: such and such did this, such and such is too strict with their kids, such and such is too tight, such and such didn't call you, it's because they don't like you...on and on and it doesn't end and that's the one (ones) I try to fight, I don't want to feel it anymore. Well laid it all out now! I think you're doing fine. As for the beliefs and ideas that arise concerning other people, what other people ought or ought not to be doing, what other people think of you, etc. I'd suggest letting it all in without resistance. You're becoming conscious, so continue to be aware of what's happening. Don;t fight it; just watch it. This is AT (attending mind), and it works just like ATA. Attending without knowing is the way. Eventually, identification with thoughts will cease, and thought structures will collapse. It is normal on this pathless path to have good days and bad days, days when you feel you are making progress and days when you feel like you're failing to make progress. Just stay alert and attentive to everything that's happening, and you can't go wrong. |
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Post by silence on Mar 19, 2012 20:15:43 GMT -5
Thealflake, I know what you're saying. Over the last 6 months I've read enough on non-duality, listened to countless you-tube vids and been to a live Satsang. I've had realizations, I've even seen there's no Me! It's just ridiculous, yet here I am feeling like not much has changed. On a day to day basis the Me is still alive and kicking, so I guess until that realization really kicks in I was kind of looking to do something to help things along. The most useful thing I think you could do at this point is to recognize that you don't actually have a clue what "helping things along" even means. Nobody actually has a clue what's coming next, where things will end up and what 'all of this' is supposed to look like. If you look closely you will likely find that there's an arrogance behind this and this arrogance can not remain hidden. It's the very same arrogance that's rejecting your current experience as 'not it' and categorizing thoughts, feelings and experiences as good and bad or more or less aligned with this 'enlightenment business'. The same arrogance that's really just the 'Me' in one costume declaring that the 'Me' in the other costume needs to get lost so that a past experience, realization or imagined ideal can be met. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Mar 19, 2012 20:30:51 GMT -5
esponja ......You are on the right track watching simple activities, washing dishes, brushing teeth, cooking, gettinbg stuff out of the frig, walking to the car, standing in line at the bank, grocery store. Don't think of it as trying to achieve anything. Your attention and your awareness are your links to a deeper aspect of self. OTOH, every thought you have is from your superficial self, ego. Thoughts are just tape recordings. You mind can cut and splice the recordings in the brain on the spot so that they seem alive and real, spontaneous. This is the you you think you are.
You can decide who you wish to be. Observing and watching through attention and awareness must become a deep love, you just have to enjoy doing it, if thoughts will ever lessen in power and duration.
You can notice thoughts, but very hard to really observe. You can notice emotions, but very hard to observe. Also, thoughts will either take you to the past (through memory) or the future (through imagination). OTOH, the body always exists in the present moment. So, in the beginning, best to observe sensations (what you see, hear, touch, taste and smell) and what the body does (how the muscles move the body), like washing dishes.
Actually, ego/personality/cultural recordings, cease to exist in the present moment. You are actually making new recordings (although this isn't the purpose) when you live in the present moment. This is why ego continually jumps back into control by activating thoughts, it's like a survival mechanism, and it's unconscious, automatic.
So, just keep coming back to watching washing the dishes. Anytime you can watch like this, you are actually taking the energy out of ego/personality. Just keep coming back. Eventually you will come to a clear and silent mind.....maybe 5,6, 7-10 seconds. Only then can you really decide if you like it better, or the continual chatter of the mind. But, then, I think you already know.......(It's totally cool.......)...
Just keep coming back to watching washing..........
And you might want to read what I wrote to jeff yesterday on Spiritual Teachers, The Rapid and Direct Means to Eternal Bliss, # 6, 7:03 PM
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Post by Beingist on Mar 19, 2012 21:26:05 GMT -5
What I'm trying to say here guys is that I don't think I'm at Level 1, you can be ruthless with me, I want this Me to disappear but it's sticking around. My main issue and why I started this thread was to see where I might be going wrong? I wouldn't worry so much about being at 'Level 1', or any other level, for that matter, sponge. Who You are has no levels, imo. But, I will say this: that you 'want this Me to disappear' is only helping it to stick around. |
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Post by Beingist on Mar 19, 2012 21:27:34 GMT -5
...also it's really nice to see all these replies when I wake up, people who genuinely want to help- so thanks. Merrick, sorry I didn't reply to your Labelling Method. Sounds interesting but perhaps another practice? I used to meditate back in my trying to change my world days, it wasn't really for me though, at least now I'm at peace with my life..I actually love it and honestly never been happier, I guess I don't believe in these thoughts as much as I used to and recognise what my mind tries to do (ie cause probs). But there is one belief that keeps arising, it normally goes: such and such did this, such and such is too strict with their kids, such and such is too tight, such and such didn't call you, it's because they don't like you...on and on and it doesn't end and that's the one (ones) I try to fight, I don't want to feel it anymore. Well laid it all out now! I think you're doing fine. Me, too, sponge.  Something that keeps us in a sort of bondage, is the belief, however subtle, that we should or shouldn't be doing something. |
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Post by esponja on Mar 20, 2012 1:03:25 GMT -5
Thanks everyone. I really do appreciate your responses. I have just skimmed through but read and re-read later. I really thought I was nearly there (where? Ha ha) it just sneaks back doesn't it?
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Post by esponja on Mar 20, 2012 1:16:11 GMT -5
What I'm trying to say here guys is that I don't think I'm at Level 1, you can be ruthless with me, I want this Me to disappear but it's sticking around. Im not sure what you mean when you say you want 'Me to disappear', and it may have been a convenient figure of speech, but presumably you want to be able to recognize when your kids call out to you i.e. when your kids call out to you, you want to be able to recognize 'me' in relation to 'them' and ask them what they want. In some activities it is cool to experience the complete disappearance of 'Me', but in day to day life, it isnt always practical or loving for total disappearance. Some remnant of 'appearance' (as opposed to 'disappearance') can be a good thing. I guess what Im suggesting is that sometimes it is helpful to look clearly at what we really want and expect from this process. Come on Andrew, you do know what I mean right? We are reading the same forum? You know, loosing the sense of a seperate self. |
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Post by esponja on Mar 20, 2012 1:17:23 GMT -5
☺ I can go with that. Got a question though! Should I abandon ATA and watching thoughts? Also, on a day to day I think I could forget all that and get swept along again... The paradox is that Oneness's dream of individuality will take anything that is said and turn it into a doing. It's the doing, that gets in the way of simply being. There is no possible way for anyone to wake up by doing something. What if you decided to simply be present, and 'do' nothing? I'm trying :-( |
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Post by esponja on Mar 20, 2012 1:19:15 GMT -5
...also it's really nice to see all these replies when I wake up, people who genuinely want to help- so thanks. Merrick, sorry I didn't reply to your Labelling Method. Sounds interesting but perhaps another practice? I used to meditate back in my trying to change my world days, it wasn't really for me though, at least now I'm at peace with my life..I actually love it and honestly never been happier, I guess I don't believe in these thoughts as much as I used to and recognise what my mind tries to do (ie cause probs). But there is one belief that keeps arising, it normally goes: such and such did this, such and such is too strict with their kids, such and such is too tight, such and such didn't call you, it's because they don't like you...on and on and it doesn't end and that's the one (ones) I try to fight, I don't want to feel it anymore. Well laid it all out now! I think you're doing fine. As for the beliefs and ideas that arise concerning other people, what other people ought or ought not to be doing, what other people think of you, etc. I'd suggest letting it all in without resistance. You're becoming conscious, so continue to be aware of what's happening. Don;t fight it; just watch it. This is AT (attending mind), and it works just like ATA. Attending without knowing is the way. Eventually, identification with thoughts will cease, and thought structures will collapse. It is normal on this pathless path to have good days and bad days, days when you feel you are making progress and days when you feel like you're failing to make progress. Just stay alert and attentive to everything that's happening, and you can't go wrong. I guess I do know this, like you said, bad day. Attending without knowing...I see. |
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