|
|
Post by esponja on Mar 19, 2012 3:04:06 GMT -5
I'm trying two things at the moment: ATA (i.e if peeling the potatos just immersing myself without thought) and 'watching my mind'. All it's left me (my mind)is frustrated though, my mind is going crazier than ever (well it's probably actually not but I'm noticing it more so it feels that way), there's certainly not much silence! I didn't really want to post anything as I'm sure the answer will be to stick with it but aaaaggghhhhh!!!
Any encouragement much needed!
Thanks
|
|
|
|
Post by Peter on Mar 19, 2012 3:36:59 GMT -5
Oh yeah, definitely. The mind HATES having nothing to do - it's like nature abhors a vacuum. You can imagine a hamster running around on a wheel and then suddenly trying to stop. That wheel has momentum and you end up with comedy hamster spinning - that's your head that is, hamster wheel. When I've been away on - say - a week silence retreat, I'll get songs stuck in my head for hours and hours at a time. I was reading a Jack Kornfield book - I think it was A Path With Heart where he spoke about a friend of his who spent a fortnight alone in a cabin by a stream and the sound of the water on the rocks started sounding like Star Spangled Banner or something and he eventually waded in the stream to move the rocks around to change the noise. Can you give an example of something your mind is going crazy with? Quite often if I get a song in my head, I find it useful to really think about the lyric that's being repeated. It usually yields some insight to what's going on in my life at the time and once I've worked that out, the song leaves. Anyway, good luck. |
|
|
|
Post by merrick on Mar 19, 2012 4:13:15 GMT -5
Any encouragement much needed! Thanks Have you tried labelling? Merrick |
|
|
|
Post by esponja on Mar 19, 2012 4:37:19 GMT -5
Oh yeah, definitely. The mind HATES having nothing to do - it's like nature abhors a vacuum. You can imagine a hamster running around on a wheel and then suddenly trying to stop. That wheel has momentum and you end up with comedy hamster spinning - that's your head that is, hamster wheel. That's funny! When I've been away on - say - a week silence retreat, I'll get songs stuck in my head for hours and hours at a time. I was reading a Jack Kornfield book - I think it was A Path With Heart where he spoke about a friend of his who spent a fortnight alone in a cabin by a stream and the sound of the water on the rocks started sounding like Star Spangled Banner or something and he eventually waded in the stream to move the rocks around to change the noise. Can you give an example of something your mind is going crazy with? Quite often if I get a song in my head, I find it useful to really think about the lyric that's being repeated. It usually yields some insight to what's going on in my life at the time and once I've worked that out, the song leaves. Anyway, good luck. Yes I get the songs although not noticed anything in particular. Mainly it's just on and on, it's the same tape that's been playing for years and I've had enough of listening, split mind I know. |
|
|
|
Post by esponja on Mar 19, 2012 4:37:53 GMT -5
Any encouragement much needed! Thanks Have you tried labelling? Merrick Not sure what this means? |
|
|
|
Post by Peter on Mar 19, 2012 5:32:53 GMT -5
Yes I get the songs although not noticed anything in particular. Mainly it's just on and on, it's the same tape that's been playing for years and I've had enough of listening, split mind I know. Right right. Is it the entire song you're getting, or just a couple of lines repeating over and over? Try saying the lyrics out loud slowly, and see if that brings anything up for you. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Mar 19, 2012 6:04:33 GMT -5
I'm trying two things at the moment: ATA (i.e if peeling the potatos just immersing myself without thought) and 'watching my mind'. All it's left me (my mind)is frustrated though, my mind is going crazier than ever (well it's probably actually not but I'm noticing it more so it feels that way), there's certainly not much silence! I didn't really want to post anything as I'm sure the answer will be to stick with it but aaaaggghhhhh!!! Any encouragement much needed! Thanks You Go Girl! Hehe |
|
|
|
Post by esponja on Mar 19, 2012 6:23:19 GMT -5
I'm trying two things at the moment: ATA (i.e if peeling the potatos just immersing myself without thought) and 'watching my mind'. All it's left me (my mind)is frustrated though, my mind is going crazier than ever (well it's probably actually not but I'm noticing it more so it feels that way), there's certainly not much silence! I didn't really want to post anything as I'm sure the answer will be to stick with it but aaaaggghhhhh!!! Any encouragement much needed! Thanks You Go Girl! Hehe Ha ha thanks feel much better! |
|
|
|
Post by esponja on Mar 19, 2012 6:24:44 GMT -5
Yes I get the songs although not noticed anything in particular. Mainly it's just on and on, it's the same tape that's been playing for years and I've had enough of listening, split mind I know. Right right. Is it the entire song you're getting, or just a couple of lines repeating over and over? Try saying the lyrics out loud slowly, and see if that brings anything up for you. I'm pretty sure it can be anything, I listen to mainly nursery rhymes these days, but I'll let you know what I find. |
|
|
|
Post by quinn on Mar 19, 2012 6:41:55 GMT -5
Hi esponja, I'm curious - does the "mind is going crazier than ever" thing happen when you're doing the ATA, too? Or just when you're watching thoughts? ATA is basically what the Buddhists call Mindfulness. The challenge for us Westerners in doing Mindfulness is that we've been taught to be goal oriented. Even if we don't reach the goal right away, we want some PROGRESS! Preferably measurable. Mindfulness is called a practice because that's all it is. A practice. Like doing scales on the piano. You don't do scales to become really good at scales - you do it to keep the muscles loose and train body memory. It improves the actual playing of music indirectly. Same with ATA. You just practice. After awhile, the ability to actually be with whatever is going on starts to seep into everyday life. But it does it at it's own pace - different for everyone. As for watching thoughts... my suggestion would be to just do it for short periods, maybe increasing time gradually. Say, 10 minutes a day to start. Not to discourage you or anything, but the first time my mind felt even a moment of quiet was about a year into daily practice. And I got so excited about it, my mind started racing immediately  The other thing I've found really helpful is to consciously relax the muscles in your body, one by one, at the beginning of each 'watching thoughts' practice. Body and mind are tied together - it can settle things down a bit. You're on the right track, for sure! |
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Mar 19, 2012 7:32:29 GMT -5
Good advice from everyone. Peter's story about the person who had to re-arrange the rocks in the stream totally cracked me up.
Yes, when we first begin ATA or AM (attending mind), the mind goes crazier than ever. FWIW it took years before this mind quieted down. I've known intellectuals who meditated two years and reported that their minds never slowed down for one instant and there was never a moment of mental silence. I doubt that was true, but I don't doubt that they were unable to perceive the changes that were happening. Just remember that most people spend almost all of their time thinking. That's a tough habit to break, but ironically, there is no one to whom that habit belongs, there is no one maintaining it, and there is no one trying to break it. It only appears that way. Part of the mystery is that oneness, as manifested by your body/mind, has lost interest in staying lost in the mind, has become curious about what lies beyond the mind, and has begun watching the mind's shenanigans.
Hang in there. As the mind loses its grip, so to speak, confirmatory experiences and realizations will occur.
|
|
jazz
Full Member
Posts: 197
|
Post by jazz on Mar 19, 2012 7:33:37 GMT -5
Oh yeah, definitely. The mind HATES having nothing to do - it's like nature abhors a vacuum. You can imagine a hamster running around on a wheel and then suddenly trying to stop. That wheel has momentum and you end up with comedy hamster spinning - that's your head that is, hamster wheel. When I've been away on - say - a week silence retreat, I'll get songs stuck in my head for hours and hours at a time. I was reading a Jack Kornfield book - I think it was A Path With Heart where he spoke about a friend of his who spent a fortnight alone in a cabin by a stream and the sound of the water on the rocks started sounding like Star Spangled Banner or something and he eventually waded in the stream to move the rocks around to change the noise. Can you give an example of something your mind is going crazy with? Quite often if I get a song in my head, I find it useful to really think about the lyric that's being repeated. It usually yields some insight to what's going on in my life at the time and once I've worked that out, the song leaves. Anyway, good luck. I was doing a 10 day silent retreat a month ago where the nature of impermanence was being explored and I had songs running through my head all the time as well. One of the lines that kept coming back and which made perfect sense at the time was "Don't wish it away, don't look at it like it's forever".  |
|
|
|
Post by esponja on Mar 19, 2012 8:28:45 GMT -5
That's exactly the kind of posts I needed to see. Just having one of those days where I feel like I'm not getting anywhere, but I know that's not true. I was just feeling like, what's the point in this if all I've done is now add frustration into the mix? It is like being on a rollercoaster that I can't get off. I do want to see this out and experience a No Self permanently not just in moments of deep enquiry.
Quinn, to answer your Q; I'm trying to do ATA but it's as though I can't! Thoughts just keep rushing through, I didn't realise how bad my concentration was. I seriously can barely focus on just the senses for less than, I don't know- feels like 30 seconds. It all feels like a bit of a battle.
I'm pretty sure though, if someone was to plot my posts here as data on a line-graph there would be lows every so often followed by a high then plateauing out! I'm seeing a pattern on my search.
Anyway, suffice to say my head hurts!
|
|
|
|
Post by quinn on Mar 19, 2012 8:56:31 GMT -5
Quinn, to answer your Q; I'm trying to do ATA but it's as though I can't! Thoughts just keep rushing through, I didn't realise how bad my concentration was. I seriously can barely focus on just the senses for less than, I don't know- feels like 30 seconds. It all feels like a bit of a battle. Just to give you a little perspective....30 seconds beats me hands down ;D Maybe 5 or 10 seconds tops is about it. What's happening for me is that those 5 or 10 seconds happen a lot. And that certainly didn't happen overnight. Trungpa Rinpoche talks about cradling your thoughts - like a mother would. Try to approach what's going on in your mind with an open heart...with gentleness. |
|
|
|
Post by esponja on Mar 19, 2012 9:15:59 GMT -5
Quinn, to answer your Q; I'm trying to do ATA but it's as though I can't! Thoughts just keep rushing through, I didn't realise how bad my concentration was. I seriously can barely focus on just the senses for less than, I don't know- feels like 30 seconds. It all feels like a bit of a battle. Just to give you a little perspective....30 seconds beats me hands down ;D Maybe 5 or 10 seconds tops is about it. What's happening for me is that those 5 or 10 seconds happen a lot. And that certainly didn't happen overnight. Trungpa Rinpoche talks about cradling your thoughts - like a mother would. Try to approach what's going on in your mind with an open heart...with gentleness. Well maybe my 30 seconds was exaggerating somewhat, that still made me feel better though. That's certainly a problem, sometimes I am able to watch my thoughts without judgement and other times I am just annoyed with myself for thinking those thoughts and then for not being able to just Be, which I know is wrong and more mind and I'll quite often then just chuckle (eventually)!!! I feel like I'm so far down the Enlightenment path and I have years to go before my thoughts will start to subside, again more thoughts on top..like I said frustrating! I do thank you for replying though, I just need to hear some encouragement every now and then as the path is a little lonely, I guess that's why I'm on here reading so much, just hoping to read that one snippet that will make me go 'aha! Then it'll all fall into place. Truth be known I don't get most of what's posted these days though 😰 |
|
