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Post by Portto on Feb 5, 2012 11:01:45 GMT -5
Would I be doing this  if I was experiencing from a distance? |
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Post by andrew on Feb 5, 2012 11:13:35 GMT -5
Would I be doing this if I was experiencing from a distance? Its not so much whether you are experiencing from a distance, its more whether you think you are. I dunno Portto. It seems to me that insisting on seeing that there is no individual creator is limiting. Valid, but limiting. What Im saying is that it doesnt really matter if there is or isnt an individual creator, creating is the reality either way. We are either unconscious, OR standing back from creating OR consciously embracing it, whichever way, creating is still happening. There is always something happening. Doings are being done. So whatever way, we are still active in the creation process, and I see passive creating as not a whole lot different really from unconscious creating. |
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Post by Portto on Feb 5, 2012 11:21:08 GMT -5
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Post by andrew on Feb 5, 2012 11:30:59 GMT -5
So....what are you creating through use of those symbols? Equally, I can ask myself what I am creating through manifesting those symbols. Or even, what are we creating together? |
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Post by Beingist on Feb 5, 2012 11:52:30 GMT -5
So....what are you creating through use of those symbols? Equally, I can ask myself what I am creating through manifesting those symbols. Or even, what are we creating together? Why do you think anyone's creating anything? |
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Post by andrew on Feb 5, 2012 12:18:30 GMT -5
So....what are you creating through use of those symbols? Equally, I can ask myself what I am creating through manifesting those symbols. Or even, what are we creating together? Why do you think anyone's creating anything? I dont necessarily. I can take the point of view that there is 'no-one' or no individual creator, its not hard to look in such a way so as to see that. But whether its true that there is or true that there isnt really doesnt matter much, what is important is the experience and the experience is of an experience happening! There are really only 3 ways to experience....unconsciously create, passively create, or consciously create. On this forum, passively create is the dominant paradigm. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 5, 2012 13:45:08 GMT -5
I would say that to understand that we are creating our reality is to awaken, because with that understanding we can no longer see ourselves as separate from the creation process. Life is no longer is something that happens TO us, we are fully immersed in the process of Life Life-ing. Its the beginning of the end of the idea of a external reality which can be objectively known by apriori knowers, and the beginning of the beginning of the idea of a subjectively experienced reality in which the knower and known are not separate. It's true that the knower and known are not separate, and that there is no objective reality, but who is the subjective creator? |
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Post by andrew on Feb 5, 2012 13:50:01 GMT -5
I would say that to understand that we are creating our reality is to awaken, because with that understanding we can no longer see ourselves as separate from the creation process. Life is no longer is something that happens TO us, we are fully immersed in the process of Life Life-ing. Its the beginning of the end of the idea of a external reality which can be objectively known by apriori knowers, and the beginning of the beginning of the idea of a subjectively experienced reality in which the knower and known are not separate. It's true that the knower and known are not separate, and that there is no objective reality, but who is the subjective creator? Im not sure I said there was one there. At most I might say the experience is of there being one. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 5, 2012 13:53:22 GMT -5
Do not try to be quiet; do not make 'being quiet' into a task to be performed.
Don't be restless about 'being quiet', miserable about 'being happy'.
Just be aware that you are and remain aware Maharaj Nisargadatta Good! |
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Post by enigma on Feb 5, 2012 14:04:05 GMT -5
Yes, we can see many things. So many toys... Are toys not inevitable? I mean, experiencing is happening isnt it? "When I was a child, I was speaking as a child, I was led as a child, I was thinking as a child, but when I became a man, I ceased these childish things." |
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Post by enigma on Feb 5, 2012 14:22:13 GMT -5
Why do you think anyone's creating anything? I dont necessarily. I can take the point of view that there is 'no-one' or no individual creator, its not hard to look in such a way so as to see that. But whether its true that there is or true that there isnt really doesnt matter much, what is important is the experience and the experience is of an experience happening! It matters very much. As long as you believe you are the creator, you take on a delusional burden for your life that can become quite heavy, full of strategies for finding the one-ended stick that will make your life all happy. You must also judge yourself and others for failing to accomplish that, while also being concerned about the image you create in the eyes of others, which means you have to deny you're doing any of that and make it look like something else that you understand and nobody else does. You have to deny the truth because the truth will deny you. There are two ways to live; conscious and awake or unconscious and asleep. Creating is not your job. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 5, 2012 14:24:10 GMT -5
It's true that the knower and known are not separate, and that there is no objective reality, but who is the subjective creator? Im not sure I said there was one there. At most I might say the experience is of there being one. You can't have it both ways. Either you are a conscious creator or you are not. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 5, 2012 14:36:54 GMT -5
I dont necessarily. I can take the point of view that there is 'no-one' or no individual creator, its not hard to look in such a way so as to see that. But whether its true that there is or true that there isnt really doesnt matter much, what is important is the experience and the experience is of an experience happening! It matters very much. As long as you believe you are the creator, you take on a delusional burden for your life that can become quite heavy, full of strategies for finding the one-ended stick that will make your life all happy. You must also judge yourself and others for failing to accomplish that, while also being concerned about the image you create in the eyes of others, which means you have to deny you're doing any of that and make it look like something else that you understand and nobody else does. You have to deny the truth because the truth will deny you. There are two ways to live; conscious and awake or unconscious and asleep. Creating is not your job. Oh, I agree that BELIEVING that you are the creator is attachment, and I havent said I believe that. There is no such thing as a one ended stick by definition, and a two ended stick is the delusion/illusion of a third dimensional reality of conditional love. I have faith in the existence of a reality of unconditional love. If you want to talk in terms of two ways, I would say we are living as a conscious/awake creator or as an unconscious/asleep creator. If we are only talking in two ways, and not three, I would have to put passive creating (the illusion of standing on the riverbank) in with unconscious/asleep. Its still a useful step though. I would say that it might be true that creating is my job and it might be true that creating isnt my job. Its not that relevant. What is relevant is the experience. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 5, 2012 14:37:39 GMT -5
Im not sure I said there was one there. At most I might say the experience is of there being one. You can't have it both ways. Either you are a conscious creator or you are not. I would say that we are either experiencing conscious creating or we are not. Whether its actually true or not that there is a subjective creator isnt that important. |
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Post by freddy on Feb 5, 2012 14:57:48 GMT -5
That one is the creator or cause for a change seen in the world is mostly a paradigm which is originated in ACIM. In A Course in Miracles it is stated through the entire book that the dreamer of the dream is the cause for what is happening in the dream. But ACIM is terrible based on a dualism between the dreamer and god. E.g. the dreamer itsself is a creation of god, so it sounds strange that a creation can make choices in which the direction of the dream keeps going. Sometimes it really is shattering how thoughts manifest themselves in the world, this gives one the feeling that the thought is the cause for the change seen in the world. But you had no choice over the thought itself.  |
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if I was experiencing from a distance?
