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Post by silence on Jan 25, 2012 16:31:34 GMT -5
Andrew, you're in imagination land. None of this is actually necessary to step out the door and live. It's certainly your prerogative if you want to perceive life as a big complicated puzzle with paradoxes around every corner but you're totally deluding yourself if you think that's the road to joy, peace and lightness and ease. Im really struggling to work out how to respond to this, because I cant see the connection between what I said and this. In a way I am in imagination land because I dont experience myself as separate from mind-ing. Or to put another way, the universe is imaginary, and I dont experience a separation between myself and the imaginary universe. I already said that I select joy, peace, lightness and ease pretty consistently so the road I have taken has been okay. What do you mean by 'step out the door and live'? In the last 4 years I have travelled to over 30 different countries, met a woman on the internet, got married and now have 2 kids. The living has been intense! Or do you mean something else? It may have come out a bit strangely on my end. I know you've shown quite a bit of courage. I get the sense that your attitude has come to be somewhat of 'mind-ing happens so may as well just fall as far into that complexity as possible'. If I was there in person with you I would be inclined to slap you across the face, unplug your computer and come outside to throw a football back and forth for an hour or so. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 25, 2012 16:43:20 GMT -5
Im really struggling to work out how to respond to this, because I cant see the connection between what I said and this. In a way I am in imagination land because I dont experience myself as separate from mind-ing. Or to put another way, the universe is imaginary, and I dont experience a separation between myself and the imaginary universe. I already said that I select joy, peace, lightness and ease pretty consistently so the road I have taken has been okay. What do you mean by 'step out the door and live'? In the last 4 years I have travelled to over 30 different countries, met a woman on the internet, got married and now have 2 kids. The living has been intense! Or do you mean something else? It may have come out a bit strangely on my end. I know you've shown quite a bit of courage. I get the sense that your attitude has come to be somewhat of 'mind-ing happens so may as well just fall as far into that complexity as possible'. If I was there in person with you I would be inclined to slap you across the face, unplug your computer and come outside to throw a football back and forth for an hour or so. Yes, your sense is probably correct. I prefer simplicity, but neither is falling deep into complexity a problem for me if I consider that to be necessary and appropriate. I spend a lot of time working with my Mum and it can be draining...I can only do it for so long. On the forum it is easy for me to be in the flow so it is actually relaxing for me. In a strange way, there is less complexity for me here than when helping my Mum to do some simple physical exercises. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 25, 2012 17:38:11 GMT -5
But if your intention were to pee at the grocery store, then it looks like a rational plan. If you get ready to go to the grocery store and intend pee just before you go, then we have to organize a committee to determine if that qualifies as rational planning. The point is all the conceptual bifurcation is insane. Sounds like an interesting title for a book: The Inherent Insanity of the Conceptual Bifurcation of Peeing. ;D I lllllike it! ;D |
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Post by enigma on Jan 25, 2012 17:42:25 GMT -5
Not sure what your point is, but spiritual incorrectness is one thing, extreme mind skipping is another. My point is that you agreed with Silence yet just the other week said something that somewhat contradicts that agreeing. Not saying you cant change your mind though. Yeah, I assumed that was your intention, and I'm sure you found 'something that somewhat contradicts'. I just dunno what you found. (Also don't care, BTW) |
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Post by enigma on Jan 25, 2012 18:09:23 GMT -5
Or it could be that when I disagree with you, you look for a reason to make me wrong because it can't possibly be because I have a valid point, and it could be that seeing me as defensive makes you feel better about being mocked. But if your intention were to pee at the grocery store, then it looks like a rational plan. If you get ready to go to the grocery store and intend pee just before you go, then we have to organize a committee to determine if that qualifies as rational planning. The point is all the conceptual bifurcation is insane. I have seen you accused of mockery and straw men for a couple of years. Its just a habit you have. You've seen me having fun with peeps, making fun of them, and even mocking. Implying that I'm denying that is a straw man argument because what I just addressed is your assumption that I do that when I'm being shown something I don't want to see. Do you see where you created a straw man? I don't do it out some kind of habit either, but because I have a sense of humor and a point to make and my goal usually isn't to be gentle and loving. I disagree with folks a lot, and occasionally the more intellectual ones will make the straw man argument, whether they actually believe it or not. My suspicion is that they usually do, and on occasion it looks that way because I failed to actually understand the point being made and addressed the point I imagined was being made. The rest of the time it's just an attempt to avoid the point I'm making. The use of a straw man argument is not integrous or fair or conducive to finding the truth or genuine understanding and I have not ever resorted to that tactic. There literally is no point to it beyond maybe appearing to win an argument. I'm not too familiar with such tactics, but I do know that there's a name for using the subjective perceptions of others to reinforce your own argument, as though what others think proves it's true. (ie,"I have seen you accused of mockery and straw men for a couple of years.") Which has nothing at all to do with my point. Sounds like a straw pee-er. ;D |
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Post by andrew on Jan 25, 2012 18:17:00 GMT -5
I have seen you accused of mockery and straw men for a couple of years. Its just a habit you have. You've seen me having fun with peeps, making fun of them, and even mocking. Implying that I'm denying that is a straw man argument because what I just addressed is your assumption that I do that when I'm being shown something I don't want to see. Do you see where you created a straw man? I don't do it out some kind of habit either, but because I have a sense of humor and a point to make and my goal usually isn't to be gentle and loving. I disagree with folks a lot, and occasionally the more intellectual ones will make the straw man argument, whether they actually believe it or not. My suspicion is that they usually do, and on occasion it looks that way because I failed to actually understand the point being made and addressed the point I imagined was being made. The rest of the time it's just an attempt to avoid the point I'm making. The use of a straw man argument is not integrous or fair or conducive to finding the truth or genuine understanding and I have not ever resorted to that tactic. There literally is no point to it beyond maybe appearing to win an argument. I'm not too familiar with such tactics, but I do know that there's a name for using the subjective perceptions of others to reinforce your own argument, as though what others think proves it's true. (ie,"I have seen you accused of mockery and straw men for a couple of years.") Which has nothing at all to do with my point. Sounds like a straw pee-er. ;D Im sorry E, you have some great qualities but in the last couple of years Ive seen you using mockery and straw men when the going gets tough. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 25, 2012 20:06:53 GMT -5
You've seen me having fun with peeps, making fun of them, and even mocking. Implying that I'm denying that is a straw man argument because what I just addressed is your assumption that I do that when I'm being shown something I don't want to see. Do you see where you created a straw man? I don't do it out some kind of habit either, but because I have a sense of humor and a point to make and my goal usually isn't to be gentle and loving. I disagree with folks a lot, and occasionally the more intellectual ones will make the straw man argument, whether they actually believe it or not. My suspicion is that they usually do, and on occasion it looks that way because I failed to actually understand the point being made and addressed the point I imagined was being made. The rest of the time it's just an attempt to avoid the point I'm making. The use of a straw man argument is not integrous or fair or conducive to finding the truth or genuine understanding and I have not ever resorted to that tactic. There literally is no point to it beyond maybe appearing to win an argument. I'm not too familiar with such tactics, but I do know that there's a name for using the subjective perceptions of others to reinforce your own argument, as though what others think proves it's true. (ie,"I have seen you accused of mockery and straw men for a couple of years.") Which has nothing at all to do with my point. Sounds like a straw pee-er. ;D Im sorry E, you have some great qualities but in the last couple of years Ive seen you using mockery and straw men when the going gets tough. When does the going get tough for you, Andrew? Is there a point at which winning becomes more important that the truth? |
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Post by Portto on Jan 25, 2012 20:16:16 GMT -5
Im sorry E, you have some great qualities but in the last couple of years Ive seen you using mockery and straw men when the going gets tough. When does the going get tough for you, Andrew? Is there a point at which winning becomes more important that the truth? Andrew can't lose, because he doesn't know if he knows anything. |
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Post by Portto on Jan 25, 2012 20:33:57 GMT -5
Im sorry E, you have some great qualities but in the last couple of years Ive seen you using mockery and straw men when the going gets tough. Enigma usually 'kmocks' those who are snoring. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 25, 2012 21:15:30 GMT -5
Im sorry E, you have some great qualities but in the last couple of years Ive seen you using mockery and straw men when the going gets tough. Enigma usually 'kmocks' those who are snoring. It apparently gets peeps attention. I'm happy to see folks laugh at themselves too, which seems most appropriate, though it's not the usual response. At the Pavlina forum, mocking (or kmocking) was a capital offense, and one of the reasons for Exactamente's crucifiction. (banishment) |
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Post by silence on Jan 25, 2012 23:21:30 GMT -5
It may have come out a bit strangely on my end. I know you've shown quite a bit of courage. I get the sense that your attitude has come to be somewhat of 'mind-ing happens so may as well just fall as far into that complexity as possible'. If I was there in person with you I would be inclined to slap you across the face, unplug your computer and come outside to throw a football back and forth for an hour or so. Yes, your sense is probably correct. I prefer simplicity, but neither is falling deep into complexity a problem for me if I consider that to be necessary and appropriate. I spend a lot of time working with my Mum and it can be draining...I can only do it for so long. On the forum it is easy for me to be in the flow so it is actually relaxing for me. In a strange way, there is less complexity for me here than when helping my Mum to do some simple physical exercises. Fair enough. This forum is kind of a way for you to decompress? |
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Post by andrew on Jan 26, 2012 2:57:28 GMT -5
Im sorry E, you have some great qualities but in the last couple of years Ive seen you using mockery and straw men when the going gets tough. When does the going get tough for you, Andrew? Is there a point at which winning becomes more important that the truth? Winning registers very low on my list of values though I wouldnt deny a bit of ego plays itself out. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 26, 2012 2:58:13 GMT -5
Im sorry E, you have some great qualities but in the last couple of years Ive seen you using mockery and straw men when the going gets tough. Enigma usually 'kmocks' those who are snoring. I dont quite see it like that. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 26, 2012 3:17:33 GMT -5
Enigma usually 'kmocks' those who are snoring. It apparently gets peeps attention. I'm happy to see folks laugh at themselves too, which seems most appropriate, though it's not the usual response. At the Pavlina forum, mocking (or kmocking) was a capital offense, and one of the reasons for Exactamente's crucifiction. (banishment) There is a difference between saying something to make someone laugh and saying something to diminish (which is egoic), and in our hearts, we are all sensitive to that difference. If it really is a joke, the other person will find it hard NOT to smile because the intent comes through. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 26, 2012 3:23:04 GMT -5
Yes, your sense is probably correct. I prefer simplicity, but neither is falling deep into complexity a problem for me if I consider that to be necessary and appropriate. I spend a lot of time working with my Mum and it can be draining...I can only do it for so long. On the forum it is easy for me to be in the flow so it is actually relaxing for me. In a strange way, there is less complexity for me here than when helping my Mum to do some simple physical exercises. Fair enough. This forum is kind of a way for you to decompress? Yes, kind of. That includes even this conversation about mockery/jokes. Its because I am relating directly here with peers, so its easy. Its straight. Its not quite like that with my parents, there is usually some degree of game going on (not so much mine). Me and my wife are on the same page with all this stuff so there really isnt much to say to each other about it. |
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