judge
Junior Member
Posts: 55 
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Post by judge on Oct 10, 2011 8:24:46 GMT -5
I don't understand what Jed McKenna meant by Human Adulthood. Can anyone explain that to me? How is it related to Enlightenment?
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Post by zendancer on Oct 10, 2011 10:09:06 GMT -5
I don't understand what Jed McKenna meant by Human Adulthood. Can anyone explain that to me? How is it related to Enlightenment? What was the context? |
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judge
Junior Member
Posts: 55
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Post by judge on Oct 10, 2011 10:42:23 GMT -5
I don't understand what Jed McKenna meant by Human Adulthood. Can anyone explain that to me? How is it related to Enlightenment? What was the context? No context. I am a slow reader and don't understand what JM is talking about for HA.  Just want to get an idea of what HA is all about. |
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Post by enigma on Oct 10, 2011 11:28:02 GMT -5
As I've mentioned, my perspective is that it means becoming conscious, and it's my opinion that self realization is extremely unlikely from a state of unconsciousness, and so that's basically all I jabber about here. 'Finding Truth' is essentially a misconception, and what that actually means is not something anybody can do anyhoo. However, illusions/delusions are formed in mind, and so they can be revealed and dissolved in mind, not volitionally, but given that the conditions are right.
What I focus on is those conditions. When I talk about thought patterns or projection or denial or question conclusions or explore intellectual concepts with folks, I'm not entertaining myself or arguing or trying to be right, I'm just pointing out what looks like unconsciousness in the mind. 99% of it is futile because there isn't the willingness to notice, but I do love that 1%.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2011 13:23:57 GMT -5
here's a quote from Spiritually Incorrect Enlightenment:
"Human Adulthood is open and easy and in tune with all rather than just itself. Human Adulthood is not the same as truth-realization, but just in case there's any question in your mind, it's the one you want. No one wants truth-realization. It can't be wanted. Human Adulthood, however, can be wanted and can be had, and is, in fact, what all seekers of all times and all places have, knowingly or not, truly sought."
Doesn't this imply that HA is something that can be 'attained' for the personal self? Sort of a refinement of the self?
Whereas truth-realization is something that can not be wanted because there is no one there to want it. In other words, if there is somebody wanting truth-realization what they are really wanting is refinement of the self. -- and Jed is saying that is a good and possible goal.
HA seems to be what Andrew points too alot -- ways of manifesting happiness/feeling good, etc.
Here's another question related to Jedisms -- What is the First Step?
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Post by enigma on Oct 11, 2011 14:35:59 GMT -5
here's a quote from Spiritually Incorrect Enlightenment: "Human Adulthood is open and easy and in tune with all rather than just itself. Human Adulthood is not the same as truth-realization, but just in case there's any question in your mind, it's the one you want. No one wants truth-realization. It can't be wanted. Human Adulthood, however, can be wanted and can be had, and is, in fact, what all seekers of all times and all places have, knowingly or not, truly sought."
Doesn't this imply that HA is something that can be 'attained' for the personal self? Sort of a refinement of the self? Whereas truth-realization is something that can not be wanted because there is no one there to want it. In other words, if there is somebody wanting truth-realization what they are really wanting is refinement of the self. -- and Jed is saying that is a good and possible goal. HA seems to be what Andrew points too alot -- ways of manifesting happiness/feeling good, etc. Here's another question related to Jedisms -- What is the First Step? Yes, human adulthood, or what I call living consciously, is all that can be talked about or worked toward, and all that is of interest to the seeker. It's the focus of every seeker whether they know it or not, and so it's my focus of attention in discussions here. I agree that it can be had because you're dealing entirely with the dynamics of mind. There's nothing terribly mysterious or ineffable or incomprehensible about it, though it can become extremely subtle. Whether or not Truth realization occurs in not in the domain of any mind and is not something that can be worked toward directly, nor can anybody actually desire it, though as I've suggested, it seems far more likely from a fully conscious state. One can become 'accident prone', and this is an excellent way for that to happen. It's not so much that there's nobody there to want it (wants happen whether there's somebody there or not) but because the delusional orientation from which that want would arise is precisely what cannot survive the realization. You cannot want your own self destruction as a means of fulfillment, only escape. However, being fully conscious does not mean manifesting happiness or feeling good, so it's not what Andrew is doing. Part of being conscious is the realization of the illusory and futile nature of that game, and it ceases, which has some distinct benefits. |
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Post by andrew on Oct 11, 2011 14:54:10 GMT -5
Just to be clear I sometimes suggest that a cool thing to do is to consciously choose to be happy and feel good in every moment no matter what the conditions. This is an 'irrational' way to be happy, and an effective way for that reason, because when we make this choice, our happiness is not dependent on conditions.
It is hard to be unconscious and be a master of this strategy because to be unconscious is to be a 'victim' of life.
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Post by andrew on Oct 11, 2011 15:05:33 GMT -5
With regard to truth realization, if someone told me that was their goal, I might ask them what they wanted from truth realization. Its such an abstract goal, I think its sometimes helpful to get really tangible about these things.
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Post by enigma on Oct 11, 2011 16:03:23 GMT -5
Just to be clear I sometimes suggest that a cool thing to do is to consciously choose to be happy and feel good in every moment no matter what the conditions. This is an 'irrational' way to be happy, and an effective way for that reason, because when we make this choice, our happiness is not dependent on conditions. It is hard to be unconscious and be a master of this strategy because to be unconscious is to be a 'victim' of life. The best i can say about the idea of choosing to be happy when one actually is unhappy is that it focuses attention inward instead of outward. Of course one cannot actually choose to be happy, only pretend to be. The fact that it is irrational doesn't make it effective for the rational mind that already believes it is unhappy for a rational reason. Happiness is, by definition, always dependent upon conditions. |
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Post by enigma on Oct 11, 2011 16:06:26 GMT -5
With regard to truth realization, if someone told me that was their goal, I might ask them what they wanted from truth realization. Its such an abstract goal, I think its sometimes helpful to get really tangible about these things. The idea of being free of suffering isn't abstract at all. The difficulty is that the person who wants to be free can never actually be freed, since this personal identity is the cause of suffering rather than the beneficiary of the solution. |
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Post by andrew on Oct 11, 2011 16:32:08 GMT -5
Just to be clear I sometimes suggest that a cool thing to do is to consciously choose to be happy and feel good in every moment no matter what the conditions. This is an 'irrational' way to be happy, and an effective way for that reason, because when we make this choice, our happiness is not dependent on conditions. It is hard to be unconscious and be a master of this strategy because to be unconscious is to be a 'victim' of life. The best i can say about the idea of choosing to be happy when one actually is unhappy is that it focuses attention inward instead of outward. Of course one cannot actually choose to be happy, only pretend to be. The fact that it is irrational doesn't make it effective for the rational mind that already believes it is unhappy for a rational reason. Happiness is, by definition, always dependent upon conditions. Nah, its only dependent on conditions when we believe that a certain set of conditions will make us happy i.e. when we are dependent on the conditions to make us happy. Happiness is actually only ever one conscious choice away, though mastering that choice often takes work in the form of releasing our sense of obligation and duty to be unhappy in certain situations. |
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Post by andrew on Oct 11, 2011 16:37:30 GMT -5
With regard to truth realization, if someone told me that was their goal, I might ask them what they wanted from truth realization. Its such an abstract goal, I think its sometimes helpful to get really tangible about these things. The idea of being free of suffering isn't abstract at all. The difficulty is that the person who wants to be free can never actually be freed, since this personal identity is the cause of suffering rather than the beneficiary of the solution. The idea of being free of suffering is perhaps less abstract but on S.F at the moment there is a yet another huge contentious thread on what 'suffering' means, so I would say its still kind of abstract. I dont want to get into what suffering means with you because it could well be a long conversation, but if someone told me that they wanted to free from suffering I might ask them to frame this statement in a positive way. I would ask what they think being 'free from suffering' will give them. |
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Post by enigma on Oct 11, 2011 16:44:17 GMT -5
our sense of obligation and duty to be unhappy in certain situations. Is that your experience??  |
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Post by enigma on Oct 11, 2011 16:46:51 GMT -5
The idea of being free of suffering isn't abstract at all. The difficulty is that the person who wants to be free can never actually be freed, since this personal identity is the cause of suffering rather than the beneficiary of the solution. The idea of being free of suffering is perhaps less abstract but on S.F at the moment there is a yet another huge contentious thread on what 'suffering' means, so I would say its still kind of abstract. I dont want to get into what suffering means with you because it could well be a long conversation, but if someone told me that they wanted to free from suffering I might ask them to frame this statement in a positive way. I would ask what they think being 'free from suffering' will give them. To be free from suffering seems far too obvious to discuss, though I'm soitainly familiar with the spinning on SF. Hehe. |
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Post by andrew on Oct 11, 2011 16:50:57 GMT -5
our sense of obligation and duty to be unhappy in certain situations. Is that your experience?? There are times when I have been unhappy and have noticed that I am in someone else's business (it could even be 'Gods' business). I also notice there is a sense of feeling like I SHOULD be in their business. There is a subtle sense of duty and obligation to be in their business. When I come back to my business I am back in a position of being able to consciously choose what I prefer to experience. Sometimes there is a sense of being pulled back to 'their' business and sometimes that might be an appropriate thing to do i.e. to allow that pull and then just fully feel. But at other times the most appropriate thing to do is to withdraw and be very very present and aware of what I am creating and experiencing. |
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Just want to get an idea of what HA is all about.
