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Post by andrew on Oct 11, 2011 16:58:14 GMT -5
The idea of being free of suffering is perhaps less abstract but on S.F at the moment there is a yet another huge contentious thread on what 'suffering' means, so I would say its still kind of abstract. I dont want to get into what suffering means with you because it could well be a long conversation, but if someone told me that they wanted to free from suffering I might ask them to frame this statement in a positive way. I would ask what they think being 'free from suffering' will give them. To be free from suffering seems far too obvious to discuss, though I'm soitainly familiar with the spinning on SF. Hehe. Well, Im not sure its that obvious, but having done the spinning with you on SF more than once (!), I think Im pretty familiar with your definition. |
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Post by tathagata on Oct 12, 2011 20:49:27 GMT -5
This whole thing becomes very simple if you just do one thing....observe the observer...but this is the hardest thing for people to actually sit down and do on a frequent and consistant basis...
Observe what is observing...and then observe what is observing the observing....keep Going until you get to the dead end...and then stay at that dead end as much as possible...sit there....reside there....and all questions become answered or moot....this one simple thing is all you have to do....everything else is window dressing that makes doing this one thing easier.
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Post by andytheone on Oct 17, 2011 15:04:32 GMT -5
Human Adulthood comes after the point when you stop taking everything you have been told to take for granted as true and realize for your self what is true to you
and it will in most people look like a breakdown because its that level of pressure is what it takes to overcome the programming
i speak from experience
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Post by jezrac on Mar 14, 2017 0:03:20 GMT -5
I don't understand what Jed McKenna meant by Human Adulthood. Can anyone explain that to me? How is it related to Enlightenment? Jed is pointing at being a true adult as opposed to a grown-up. I'll explain and I'll provide an example... A true adult is a man or a woman who has removed the conditioning that we adopt in childhood from society at many levels and mostly from our parents. An example for this is found in the way almost all men in Western society are raised by a weak woman and thereby strongly impressed with a maniacal drive to protect women's weaknesses as a "grown-up boy". This is a truth that's hard to bear for most men and even harder to see for almost all men. This is only one example of what Jed is pointing at in his mention of being a Human Adult. |
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Post by laughter on Mar 14, 2017 20:12:08 GMT -5
I don't understand what Jed McKenna meant by Human Adulthood. Can anyone explain that to me? How is it related to Enlightenment? Jed is pointing at being a true adult as opposed to a grown-up. I'll explain and I'll provide an example... A true adult is a man or a woman who has removed the conditioning that we adopt in childhood from society at many levels and mostly from our parents. An example for this is found in the way almost all men in Western society are raised by a weak woman and thereby strongly impressed with a maniacal drive to protect women's weaknesses as a "grown-up boy". This is a truth that's hard to bear for most men and even harder to see for almost all men. This is only one example of what Jed is pointing at in his mention of being a Human Adult. It's true that early conditioning is disproportionately influential, but the process of forming new conditioning continues for as long as we're alive, and is constanty happening from moment to moment. How certain are you that almost all men in Western society are raised by weak women, and what is the basis for the assumption? Is it possible that the assumption has the potential to reveal something about your own conditioning that you're currently unconscious of? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2017 20:29:41 GMT -5
As I've mentioned, my perspective is that it means becoming conscious, and it's my opinion that self realization is extremely unlikely from a state of unconsciousness, and so that's basically all I jabber about here. 'Finding Truth' is essentially a misconception, and what that actually means is not something anybody can do anyhoo. However, illusions/delusions are formed in mind, and so they can be revealed and dissolved in mind, not volitionally, but given that the conditions are right. What I focus on is those conditions. When I talk about thought patterns or projection or denial or question conclusions or explore intellectual concepts with folks, I'm not entertaining myself or arguing or trying to be right, I'm just pointing out what looks like unconsciousness in the mind. 99% of it is futile because there isn't the willingness to notice, but I do love that 1%. Are you denying that you are not trying to be right in discussions? That mockery, double binds and one-upmanship aren't games to make you right and an other wrong? Are you seriously denying that? |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 14, 2017 21:10:52 GMT -5
Let me guess, he still didn't give you the keys to the club house?  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2017 23:25:05 GMT -5
Let me guess, he still didn't give you the keys to the club house? You blinked and now your beaten. You were doing so well too. Were you conscious of the thought that you were winning with your ignoring strategy? Or were you unconscious of it like Laffy was with his ignoring strategy? |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 15, 2017 1:28:21 GMT -5
Let me guess, he still didn't give you the keys to the club house? You blinked and now your beaten. You were doing so well too. Were you conscious of the thought that you were winning with your ignoring strategy? Or were you unconscious of it like Laffy was with his ignoring strategy? Then this would be the perfect time to end your crusade. After all you've won, right?  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2017 11:21:35 GMT -5
You blinked and now your beaten. You were doing so well too. Were you conscious of the thought that you were winning with your ignoring strategy? Or were you unconscious of it like Laffy was with his ignoring strategy? Then this would be the perfect time to end your crusade. After all you've won, right? I will take that answer as a no. Imagining and projecting a crusade to save face for your amateur gamemanship is nothing but wound licking. If you were wise you would be grateful for the gift I gave you.  |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Mar 15, 2017 15:13:32 GMT -5
I don't understand what Jed McKenna meant by Human Adulthood. Can anyone explain that to me? How is it related to Enlightenment? Jed means being a responsible adult, a mature adult. Jed means trying to see the truth. Jed means no bull s**t. Jed means taking care of business. Jed means calling a spade a spade. Jed means being emotionally mature. Jed doesn't necessarily mean putting others first, but treating others fairly, respectfully. He means don't be whiney. He means if you make a promise, try to keep it, IOW, keep your word. ATST he means don't promise more than you can deliver. He means don't slack off, if you work eight hours for someone, work eight hours, don't "clock out early", don't get someone else to clock you out, if you get a ten minute break, don't take eleven minutes. Don't yell and scream, don't mistreat others. Treat family with respect even if you don't like them. Don't be a baby. Don't backbite, don't back stab. Don't try to impose your will upon others. I guess mostly, have integrity. Expect karmic retaliation, IOW, do what's right. In certain cases, act without regard to self and without reward. Be kind, even when others are not kind to you. He means, be an adult. All that means to "externally consider always, internally never". He means every stick has two ends, so in time you will necessarily get both ends of the stick. Being a human adult means to most always, when possible, pick the sh*t*y-thorny end of the stick, now, so as to get the "roses" later. If need be, under extraordinary circumstances, throw all of the above out the window, IOW, sometimes you have to be a conscious as$ ho*e. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 12:01:22 GMT -5
I don't understand what Jed McKenna meant by Human Adulthood. Can anyone explain that to me? How is it related to Enlightenment? Jed means being a responsible adult, a mature adult. Jed means trying to see the truth. Jed means no bull s**t. Jed means taking care of business. Jed means calling a spade a spade. Jed means being emotionally mature. Jed doesn't necessarily mean putting others first, but treating others fairly, respectfully. He means don't be whiney. He means if you make a promise, try to keep it, IOW, keep your word. ATST he means don't promise more than you can deliver. He means don't slack off, if you work eight hours for someone, work eight hours, don't "clock out early", don't get someone else to clock you out, if you get a ten minute break, don't take eleven minutes. Don't yell and scream, don't mistreat others. Treat family with respect even if you don't like them. Don't be a baby. Don't backbite, don't back stab. Don't try to impose your will upon others. I guess mostly, have integrity. Expect karmic retaliation, IOW, do what's right. In certain cases, act without regard to self and without reward. Be kind, even when others are not kind to you. He means, be an adult. All that means to "externally consider always, internally never". He means every stick has two ends, so in time you will necessarily get both ends of the stick. Being a human adult means to most always, when possible, pick the sh*t*y-thorny end of the stick, now, so as to get the "roses" later. If need be, under extraordinary circumstances, throw all of the above out the window, IOW, sometimes you have to be a conscious as$ ho*e. Better, better, better....be a better person. Self improvement under the tutelage of a fake guru. |
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Post by laughter on Mar 16, 2017 15:35:13 GMT -5
The idea of being free of suffering is perhaps less abstract but on S.F at the moment there is a yet another huge contentious thread on what 'suffering' means, so I would say its still kind of abstract. I dont want to get into what suffering means with you because it could well be a long conversation, but if someone told me that they wanted to free from suffering I might ask them to frame this statement in a positive way. I would ask what they think being 'free from suffering' will give them. To be free from suffering seems far too obvious to discuss, though I'm soitainly familiar with the spinning on SF. Hehe.  |
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Post by laughter on Mar 16, 2017 15:37:38 GMT -5
I don't understand what Jed McKenna meant by Human Adulthood. Can anyone explain that to me? How is it related to Enlightenment? Jed means being a responsible adult, a mature adult. Jed means trying to see the truth. Jed means no bull s**t. Jed means taking care of business. Jed means calling a spade a spade. Jed means being emotionally mature. Jed doesn't necessarily mean putting others first, but treating others fairly, respectfully. He means don't be whiney. He means if you make a promise, try to keep it, IOW, keep your word. ATST he means don't promise more than you can deliver. He means don't slack off, if you work eight hours for someone, work eight hours, don't "clock out early", don't get someone else to clock you out, if you get a ten minute break, don't take eleven minutes. Don't yell and scream, don't mistreat others. Treat family with respect even if you don't like them. Don't be a baby. Don't backbite, don't back stab. Don't try to impose your will upon others. I guess mostly, have integrity. Expect karmic retaliation, IOW, do what's right. In certain cases, act without regard to self and without reward. Be kind, even when others are not kind to you. He means, be an adult. All that means to "externally consider always, internally never". He means every stick has two ends, so in time you will necessarily get both ends of the stick. Being a human adult means to most always, when possible, pick the sh*t*y-thorny end of the stick, now, so as to get the "roses" later. If need be, under extraordinary circumstances, throw all of the above out the window, IOW, sometimes you have to be a conscious as$ ho*e. Are you claiming that this is what Jed meant or is this what it means to you? |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Mar 16, 2017 18:25:19 GMT -5
Jed means being a responsible adult, a mature adult. Jed means trying to see the truth. Jed means no bull s**t. Jed means taking care of business. Jed means calling a spade a spade. Jed means being emotionally mature. Jed doesn't necessarily mean putting others first, but treating others fairly, respectfully. He means don't be whiney. He means if you make a promise, try to keep it, IOW, keep your word. ATST he means don't promise more than you can deliver. He means don't slack off, if you work eight hours for someone, work eight hours, don't "clock out early", don't get someone else to clock you out, if you get a ten minute break, don't take eleven minutes. Don't yell and scream, don't mistreat others. Treat family with respect even if you don't like them. Don't be a baby. Don't backbite, don't back stab. Don't try to impose your will upon others. I guess mostly, have integrity. Expect karmic retaliation, IOW, do what's right. In certain cases, act without regard to self and without reward. Be kind, even when others are not kind to you. He means, be an adult. All that means to "externally consider always, internally never". He means every stick has two ends, so in time you will necessarily get both ends of the stick. Being a human adult means to most always, when possible, pick the sh*t*y-thorny end of the stick, now, so as to get the "roses" later. If need be, under extraordinary circumstances, throw all of the above out the window, IOW, sometimes you have to be a conscious as$ ho*e. Are you claiming that this is what Jed meant or is this what it means to you? I answered the question. This is my recollection of what he meant. Because I ceased saying: Jed means so-n-so doesn't mean I ceased meaning Jed, in every instance. There are people who have been human adults without any necessary inclination for the "spiritual". You act in a way to benefit the Whole, the many, the One, and not necessarily the few, or the one. Abraham Lincoln comes to mind. You have tempted me to go back and look for proof. |
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