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Post by onehandclapping on Sept 11, 2011 0:45:24 GMT -5
" but knowing what you are does not make you free, and neither does ending your spiritual search...being free makes you free lol...the effort to end all attachments should not end just becuase you realized your true nature, it should continue until you are free of them..." I'm gonna have to have some more explanation on this one. I feel like once you realized your true nature you are then free. There is no effort anymore. Cause what is there to effort over? Maybe are you talking about the settling time between the shift and the total every moment acceptance of it as the ego unwinds? But even then, that doesn't take effort. Is there effort towards anything in life or does it just happen? I reckon the latter is true for me. do you still form opinions? Do you still stick to ideas? Do you still make judgments? Do you still plan and do anything with an outcome in mind? if not...good for you lol Do you know what your going to do tommorow?.... Do you think its good or bad that the Crystal waver grades people? Life is in someways judgment and choice...some people have much more simple lives than others...I.e. much less judgments and choices...what happens when all judgment and ideas are gone and do not reform all the time? I don't know what question Peter is talking about but I don't know if I got a straight answer on my questions. Can you make another run at my questions Tath por favor? |
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Post by tathagata on Sept 11, 2011 21:50:57 GMT -5
" but knowing what you are does not make you free, and neither does ending your spiritual search...being free makes you free lol...the effort to end all attachments should not end just becuase you realized your true nature, it should continue until you are free of them..." I'm gonna have to have some more explanation on this one. I feel like once you realized your true nature you are then free. There is no effort anymore. Cause what is there to effort over? Maybe are you talking about the settling time between the shift and the total every moment acceptance of it as the ego unwinds? But even then, that doesn't take effort. Is there effort towards anything in life or does it just happen? I reckon the latter is true for me. In Advaita it is said that with enlightenment comes complete liberation, and in mahayana its said that sometimes there is enlightenment without complete liberation(an Arhat), and sometimes there is enlightenment with complete liberation(a Budha)...both are true, both happen...ramana maharshi had an experience described in advaita, I had an experience described in mahayana...both happen, but in the modern world, in this culture, the mahayana experience, wherein first comes enlightenemnt, and then later complete liberation, is MUCH more common. This is becuase complete liberation can only happen when you have uncovered enlightenment and completely surrendered yourself and self preservation, the end of delusion comes with death, and death can be a real death, or the complete and total surrendering of yourself and self preservation...in the ancient world or in the third world survival and self preservation are very concious things, becuase survival is a struggle, living from day to day and staying alive is a big effort, so you are much more conciously aware of self preservation on all levels becuase it is very visceral. Also, if you practice sever austerities self preservation can become very visceral instead of something happening in the background. One things is common among those that became fully liberated at the same time they were enlightened, and that was a very visceral experience of self preservation leading up to their enlightnement, either through austerities or though a difficult enviornment. If you were having a very visceral experience of survival when you realized your true nature, it is very easy to recognize and let go of self preservation. But in a very advanced society, a very wealthy society, where survival is taken as a given, where starvation and death and austerity are not a part of everyday life, your self preservation is not so aparent, its not so visceral. Greed and hate are very visceral, but death is not, so sometimes their is a gap between enlightenment and complete surrender/liberation. The none seeker lives in a world of delusion of seperateness...and this delusion occurs with no effort at all for them. The same can be said for someone who has been enlightened in full self realization of their oneness but that hasnt ended all ideas attachments and delusions. It can be effortless, expecially if all seeking ends with the realization of oneness...but this is not a question of effort or no effort...becuase again, delusion takes no concious effort. |
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Post by Peter on Sept 12, 2011 13:53:26 GMT -5
Right. Still not listening then. The question wasn't convenient I suppose. You did invite questions you may remember, Tathagata. Why invite them only to then ignore them? Nobody to listen, but certainly someone talking. P I'm sorry...did you ask me a question that I missed Peter? Not this time  I was referring to Enigma's post immediately preceding what looks (to the unitiated) like a complete non sequitur? |
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Post by tathagata on Sept 12, 2011 16:37:23 GMT -5
I'm sorry...did you ask me a question that I missed Peter? Not this time I was referring to Enigma's post immediately preceding what looks (to the unitiated) like a complete non sequitur? Yeah I saw that and was listening, just didnt not to take a bite of that straw man apple lol |
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