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Post by ANON on Jan 15, 2009 15:12:52 GMT -5
Thought is a natural and vital part of life. You might say that thought is one side of life and the spiritual is the other. What has happened over millennia is that we have become conditioned by a thought-based process in order to conform to society. This process requires that it be maintained using thought. This prevents us from finding the spiritual side of life. The "awakening" or "enlightenment" event shatters our thought-based world and opens our awareness to the spiritual. Thought is not the enemy, conditioning is. We can be open to thinking as a tool as long we understand that our resting place is on the spiritual side. We need thought to get around in the world and make sense of what's going on. When thought is not needed we can rest in peace/bliss/silence of the spiritual side.
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Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 15, 2009 15:29:07 GMT -5
Thought is a natural and vital part of life. You might say that thought is one side of life and the spiritual is the other. What has happened over millennia is that we have become conditioned by a thought-based process in order to conform to society. This process requires that it be maintained using thought. This prevents us from finding the spiritual side of life. The "awakening" or "enlightenment" event shatters our thought-based world and opens our awareness to the spiritual. Thought is not the enemy, conditioning is. We can be open to thinking as a tool as long we understand that our resting place is on the spiritual side. We need thought to get around in the world and make sense of what's going on. When thought is not needed we can rest in peace/bliss/silence of the spiritual side. Hi Anon. Nicely said I would like to add though thought is never needed it just is and happens on its own. I know that may sound insane as we tend to take ownership of thought. However this is easy to comfirm next time you are about to do anything just stay aware and see what happens do nothing and see thought will just come up on its own. You can also find rest and freedom in this because now you are assured that there is nothing to do but to observe the next happening whatever that is. Waarmly randyji |
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Post by ANON on Jan 15, 2009 16:08:05 GMT -5
Thought that rises up from the depths is often called insight. There is also the thought that is directed by concentration. If you have to drive the freeways of Los Angeles, you have to use directed thought; you don't have time to wait for insights regarding the next exit!
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Post by lightmystic on Jan 15, 2009 16:15:28 GMT -5
Christ, that is long and boring. Perhaps you can tell me in your own words. lightmystic, read chapter 5. fear, i do this in order to recognize the "garbage" which is always arising. It is theatre, the play. |
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Post by lightmystic on Jan 15, 2009 16:16:38 GMT -5
Nicely said. Thought is a natural and vital part of life. You might say that thought is one side of life and the spiritual is the other. What has happened over millennia is that we have become conditioned by a thought-based process in order to conform to society. This process requires that it be maintained using thought. This prevents us from finding the spiritual side of life. The "awakening" or "enlightenment" event shatters our thought-based world and opens our awareness to the spiritual. Thought is not the enemy, conditioning is. We can be open to thinking as a tool as long we understand that our resting place is on the spiritual side. We need thought to get around in the world and make sense of what's going on. When thought is not needed we can rest in peace/bliss/silence of the spiritual side. |
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Post by klaus on Jan 15, 2009 17:24:19 GMT -5
Christ, that is long and boring. Perhaps you can tell me in your own words. lightmystic, read chapter 5. fear, i do this in order to recognize the "garbage" which is always arising. It is theatre, the play. lightmystic, My own words would be just as boring to you, since they would get to the same point "in other words." Why was it boring to you? |
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Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 15, 2009 17:26:08 GMT -5
Thought that rises up from the depths is often called insight. There is also the thought that is directed by concentration. If you have to drive the freeways of Los Angeles, you have to use directed thought; you don't have time to wait for insights regarding the next exit! Yes but on the LA freewy during rush hour you not only have time to wait for insight, you have time to write in your journal, put make up on, watch a sit com etc LOL. Seriously though your correct in a way directed thought but that is misleading because the thoughts are not yours they are just flowing really in life it is my realization that nothing is ever directed though it can seem that way but what is happening is simply happening. Cheers Randyji |
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Post by ANON on Jan 15, 2009 18:25:04 GMT -5
By directed I mean that your awareness is directed or focused on a certain endeavor. Within that context, thoughts will arise and usually they are directed to the task at hand.
The ego "owns" a thought in that it says this is "my thought." Absent the ego, the thought seemingly rises on its own as if worked on below conscious awareness.
One usually chooses the context from which thought flows from. That may mean a contemplative approach where one poses a question and waits for the answers for a long as it takes.
The unconditioned mind receives insights that are more personally truthful since they are not filtered through the beliefs and ideologies that a conditioned mind holds.
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Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 15, 2009 18:40:03 GMT -5
By directed I mean that your awareness is directed or focused on a certain endeavor. Within that context, thoughts will arise and usually they are directed to the task at hand. The ego "owns" a thought in that it says this is "my thought." Absent the ego, the thought seemingly rises on its own as if worked on below conscious awareness. One usually chooses the context from which thought flows from. That may mean a contemplative approach where one poses a question and waits for the answers for a long as it takes. The unconditioned mind receives insights that are more personally truthful since they are not filtered through the beliefs and ideologies that a conditioned mind holds. Hi Again Yes I understand you now who is the one that chooses? Randyji |
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Post by lightmystic on Jan 15, 2009 19:09:38 GMT -5
lightmystic, My own words would be just as boring to you, since they would get to the same point "in other words." Why was it boring to you? Well, I suppose because it was long and something I've already looked at. I would be very interested to hear from you, because then we can poke it openly and something good will come out for us. This type of talking and thinking about Enlightenment is nothing short of brilliant. I loved it. It was everything that I had been looking for because I wanted it for real and was determined not to be deluded. In retrospect, I was exactly right. For my type of personality is very very useful and I'm not sure I would be anywhere close to where I am without it. That said, at some point there's the acceptance of the horrible things. There's the going through death, there's the being honest with yourself in a brutal "nothing and no one is gonna save you" sort of way. There's the acceptance of the ugly black cloud and the fact that it's there and it's not going away. There's the acceptance that everything I've ever thought and wanted, etc. etc. is BS, and that I'm a liar and a retard and all of that sort of thing. There's the getting down to what's fundamentally true and burning off all the blocks, misconceptions, karma, etc.. That all had it's place, and that was useful. But at some point, that process itself actually becomes a hindrance. For me, that was right before actual Awakening, although I didn't know that at the time. Accepting that I was wrong was easy, especially at that point, accepting that I was right was what was difficult. Accepting that all this Awareness that seemed to have nothing to do with me but was there all the time actually WAS me, and that maybe it actually was that simple like all the sages said was the really hard part. I didn't want to, because I didn't want to lie to myself. Turns out, I was lying to myself the other way, but that's how it goes. The ego has to go one way or the other... So it can be very useful, but I've met many Awakened people who get so stuck in that. It's completely valid, but it really is just one way of talking about it. Further, honestly looking for more growth means exploring the depth of understanding. It means taking cold hard stock of what one's issues are so they can be felt through completely and released. I was positive that real Enlightenment was going to mean working through every issue I've ever had, but then it happened. And I still had issues. Go figure. Nonetheless, I still have the desire to grow. It's what my personality wants, and has always wanted. And I'm in the perfect position as the Allness to let myself have it. It's truly amazing. Awakening may be a great start, and Enlightenment may be the full understanding, but that's just the beginning, even though it's the end on some level. There's all of life! It's such a waste to get stuck somewhere limited, and just because one starts identifying with unlimited Awareness doesn't mean there isn't so much more to enjoy, because there is.  What do you think? I would very much like to have an honest discussion about this if you have the interest and openness that perhaps we each can learn something... |
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Post by ANON on Jan 15, 2009 20:39:57 GMT -5
Hi Again Yes I understand you now who is the one that chooses? Randyji You can't get around that, even if the ego is gone, there is an actor or self that remains. You may call it "will" or some other term, but there has to be a motive force behind one's actions otherwise one will simply sit and gaze forever. "Intention" is a good term use to describe how one approaches the things one does in life. |
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Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 15, 2009 21:15:09 GMT -5
Hi Again Yes I understand you now who is the one that chooses? Randyji You can't get around that, even if the ego is gone, there is an actor or self that remains. You may call it "will" or some other term, but there has to be a motive force behind one's actions otherwise one will simply sit and gaze forever. "Intention" is a good term use to describe how one approaches the things one does in life. ________________ The one that chooses is the Oneness, the aliveness because the moment you put in a word like will then separation is created yes? I see this as there is truly only Oneness from that Oneness you have trillions of seemly separate entities created completely from the instrument called mind for the purpose to illustrate that there is more than One. All of this energy being generated just to create a game. When the game collapses on a seemly separate being then the veil drops and only Oneness remains. This is called by some as awakening, enlightenment and so forth. It.. as meaning this Oneness or Isness is who we truly are. This is so very raw and simple is it not. But yet we have tons of belief systems, religions etc that have been created by the mind for one reason to keep the game going and the result is that we end up with a system that is rock solid in its illusion that when the simple truth is shown it can never be accepted. So this Oneness here has been rambling a bit with you. I like the ji on the end of your name Anonji. Cheers m8 Randyji |
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anonji
Junior Member
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Post by anonji on Jan 15, 2009 23:56:03 GMT -5
Randiji, I thought I would upgrade my handle to gain a little more respect  As to the Oneness, I do understand where you're coming from. For me, I prefer to avoid all "ism's" and try to express mystical or spiritual concepts in plain-language terms. Most of what appears to very deep can be understood and explained in simple language. But, as you say, simple truths are often not believable, so we follow complex systems that require gurus and advisors to penetrate. We spend years looking for that kernel of truth hidden in the complexities of systems and mysteries. Perhaps we can touch on these simple truths as our conversations unfold. |
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Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 16, 2009 0:18:58 GMT -5
Randiji, I thought I would upgrade my handle to gain a little more respect As to the Oneness, I do understand where you're coming from. For me, I prefer to avoid all "ism's" and try to express mystical or spiritual concepts in plain-language terms. Most of what appears to very deep can be understood and explained in simple language. But, as you say, simple truths are often not believable, so we follow complex systems that require gurus and advisors to penetrate. We spend years looking for that kernel of truth hidden in the complexities of systems and mysteries. Perhaps we can touch on these simple truths as our conversations unfold. Yes the simple way is best. A good friend of mine puts it this way.. Rather than looking at the objects of awareness, you turn consciousness back upon itself and becomeaware of being aware. Rather than focusing on thoughts, you focus on the knower of the thoughts, on the conscious subject rather than on the perceived objects, on the seeing rather than on the seen. When awareness looks upon itself, the split between an observing subject and an observedobject disappears. Face the seeker and the seeker dissolves. There is just awareness aware of itself. Instantly there arises the joy of self-recognition, the bliss of freedom. You return to the source of all thought, of all seeking and looking, the source from which identity, subject and object originate. This source is you. Here is the Self that youhave always been, the eternally abiding presence, our silent undivided being. The awareness that recognizes itself as source consciousness is pure, unmediated knowing. "I am that I am" is the self-intuition of being-awareness that knows that it is. This is not some "other," but what we are, the awake substrate within everything. You cannot know thisthrough mind because mind cannot understand or grasp its source. It can only bow to it in silence. When the individual wave consciousness turns fully to face itself, it is revealed that you are and always have been theocean, and all waves-thoughts, feelings, actions-are the projections of your own consciousness. In the mystery that all is You the sought-for freedom and joy is here and now. So how diffcult was it to read those words or to follow them. It is only when someone allows the mind to be King that diffculty arises. As far as what Let Davidson wrote above I agree with most of it, their are some minor points where I differ only. However I feel he does a above average job in describing something that by nature does not lend itself to description. Peace Randyji |
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Post by Peter on Jan 16, 2009 8:08:47 GMT -5
Wow, this board is fairly cooking. The one that chooses is the Oneness, the aliveness because the moment you put in a word like will then separation is created yes? How can the unconditioned make a choice? How could something that makes no distinction between good and evil, which neither interprets nor holds human values decide on any course of action? Cheers, Peter |
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