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Post by klaus on Jan 13, 2009 12:30:52 GMT -5
Hi dwbh1953 You are a breath of fresh air on this forum. I know current members will be offended by what I'm about to say but it has to be said. The contents of this forum has been a preoccupation with what my teacher Adi Da Samraj calls "garbage." Refer to Garbage and the Goddess link. www.beezone.com/AdiDa/GarbageGoddess/chapter1.htmlThat quote you referenced is well put: All there is, is this... Klaus |
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Post by commiejesus on Jan 13, 2009 13:45:18 GMT -5
In my humble opinion; "thought" (that is akin to Cosmic Mind) is ever present. Individual thought that is coming from the self (ego) will not. The other puzzle is; will the person remain in physical form (body) after "enlightenment" or will he/she ascend and cease form? Huh? Ever thought of this? Just my 2 cents, I must run now.... There seems to be a lot of varying opinions about whether there is thought after enlightenment. Some well respected members on this forum feel that there is thought after enlightenment. I happen to disagree. I believe that we, the ego, is only thought. The illusion of ourselves is thought. Thought is all that keeps us from being enlightened. Even when you don't think you are thinking, you are thinking. Ex if you look at a tree, you don't have to tell yourself that it's a tree and you may not think that you are thinking about it but you are because you already have preconceived notions about the tree, like it's green, has branches, cannot speak, walk, or make decisions. This is all thought, if you looked at a tree and it spoke to you, you would be floored because the tree does not fit into your thought structure. An enlightened being takes every moment as being brand new, no preconceived notions, when he looks at a tree, he is the tree, he has no ideas or thoughts about the tree. So in my opinion, I think therefore I am not. A little twist on Rene Descartes' famous line. |
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Post by lightmystic on Jan 13, 2009 14:00:10 GMT -5
That link is quite long. I read a bit, but I found that a lot of what was talked about was not relevant in my opinion. Thus, I'll just ask, what types of things are you referring to as "garbage?" I'd be curious to know. Hi dwbh1953 You are a breath of fresh air on this forum. I know current members will be offended by what I'm about to say but it has to be said. The contents of this forum has been a preoccupation with what my teacher Adi Da Samraj calls "garbage." Refer to Garbage and the Goddess link. www.beezone.com/AdiDa/GarbageGoddess/chapter1.htmlThat quote you referenced is well put: All there is, is this... Klaus |
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Post by lightmystic on Jan 13, 2009 14:01:50 GMT -5
Interesting ideas. Why do you say there's a difference between individual thought and cosmic thought? Why do you feel that one would leave their body once Enlightenment happens? In my humble opinion; "thought" (that is akin to Cosmic Mind) is ever present. Individual thought that is coming from the self (ego) will not. The other puzzle is; will the person remain in physical form (body) after "enlightenment" or will he/she ascend and cease form? Huh? Ever thought of this? Just my 2 cents, I must run now.... There seems to be a lot of varying opinions about whether there is thought after enlightenment. Some well respected members on this forum feel that there is thought after enlightenment. I happen to disagree. I believe that we, the ego, is only thought. The illusion of ourselves is thought. Thought is all that keeps us from being enlightened. Even when you don't think you are thinking, you are thinking. Ex if you look at a tree, you don't have to tell yourself that it's a tree and you may not think that you are thinking about it but you are because you already have preconceived notions about the tree, like it's green, has branches, cannot speak, walk, or make decisions. This is all thought, if you looked at a tree and it spoke to you, you would be floored because the tree does not fit into your thought structure. An enlightened being takes every moment as being brand new, no preconceived notions, when he looks at a tree, he is the tree, he has no ideas or thoughts about the tree. So in my opinion, I think therefore I am not. A little twist on Rene Descartes' famous line. |
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fear
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Post by fear on Jan 13, 2009 19:48:40 GMT -5
dwbh1953, you say that I'm assuming about enlightenment and it's not what I think it is but isn't it you who assumes that I'm saying only non enlightened beings can read my post. Who says that to function in the world as we know it, can only happen by using thought. Just because you need to wake up and do everyday things does not mean that you need to think. I don't know first hand that you don't need to think or need to, all I'm saying is that the evidence points to there being no thought after enlightenment, and yes I know the word enlightenment means different things to different people just like millions of other words but what do you suggest I use instead, silence?
And who ever said enlightenment is something magical, did I ever say it's not something simple? Not that I would know for sure anyway but you seem to.
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fear
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Post by fear on Jan 13, 2009 20:00:05 GMT -5
To Klaus,
this site may be 'garbage' and I'm not offended by what your opinion or you teacher's opinion is but what's the alternative? At least we have a place where we can push each other's buttons so that we can learn something about ourselves.
And what does that say about your teacher, obviously you didn't take his advice because you are delving in 'garbage' as well, while your teacher eats with golden utensils and sleeps on a bed of soft silk and condemn's those who are trying to find their way.
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Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 13, 2009 20:17:49 GMT -5
dwbh1953, you say that I'm assuming about enlightenment and it's not what I think it is but isn't it you who assumes that I'm saying only non enlightened beings can read my post. Who says that to function in the world as we know it, can only happen by using thought. Just because you need to wake up and do everyday things does not mean that you need to think. I don't know first hand that you don't need to think or need to, all I'm saying is that the evidence points to there being no thought after enlightenment, and yes I know the word enlightenment means different things to different people just like millions of other words but what do you suggest I use instead, silence? And who ever said enlightenment is something magical, did I ever say it's not something simple? Not that I would know for sure anyway but you seem to. Hi Fear interesting handle you have Ok I will not debate the issue of having thought after enlightenment because it is apples and organes. Fear the real issue is by asking such a question you are putting a personal ownership on thought. Do you think the thoughts you have our yours? Thought simply happens in the world of mind it comes and get goes. Thought has nothing at all to do with enlightment at all. Since enlightenment is and always has been beyond thoughts of anykind it is a non issue. There is no such thing as personal enlightenment because there is no such thing as a person to be enlighten. Now the mind will go crazy with what I just said but that is simply the truth a bit dissapointing because the mind wants to think it can get somewhere or something like enlightenment. Cheers Randy |
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Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 13, 2009 20:19:22 GMT -5
Hi dwbh1953 You are a breath of fresh air on this forum. I know current members will be offended by what I'm about to say but it has to be said. The contents of this forum has been a preoccupation with what my teacher Adi Da Samraj calls "garbage." Refer to Garbage and the Goddess link. www.beezone.com/AdiDa/GarbageGoddess/chapter1.htmlThat quote you referenced is well put: All there is, is this... Klaus Nice to meet you Klaus your first name would not be Santa if it is I have a lits for you! Thank you I will keep the window open always for the breeze to come through Randy |
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Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 13, 2009 20:23:28 GMT -5
In my humble opinion; "thought" (that is akin to Cosmic Mind) is ever present. Individual thought that is coming from the self (ego) will not. The other puzzle is; will the person remain in physical form (body) after "enlightenment" or will he/she ascend and cease form? Huh? Ever thought of this? Just my 2 cents, I must run now.... Hi commiejesus, Mind is mind is mind is mind is mind. Enlightenment is simply viewing what is without the lens of ego. No ego no mind. As far as staying in form well I think the only change you will see is in the waistline if they become a fast food junkie! Cheers Randy [ |
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Post by commiejesus on Jan 14, 2009 1:57:57 GMT -5
Dear LM, Individual thought is ego based, Cosmic knowledge based thought is for the common good of mankind, the planet and the general welfare of all beings.... As for the other issue.... There are certain precedences and anecdotes. The whole notion of ascension as equated to "enlightenment"would suggest leaving the body....but I am not sure myself. Randy, I do not think it is as simple as you describe. "Enlightenment" has been described by some ( who actually claim to have gone through it) as cosmic knowledge and seeing in 360 degrees etc etc, but it is hard to verbalize something like that, no matter how eager we are to do such things.....even if you have actually done it I would be suspicious as how you describe it as words cannot do IT justice... Cheers CJ Interesting ideas. Why do you say there's a difference between individual thought and cosmic thought? Why do you feel that one would leave their body once Enlightenment happens? In my humble opinion; "thought" (that is akin to Cosmic Mind) is ever present. Individual thought that is coming from the self (ego) will not. The other puzzle is; will the person remain in physical form (body) after "enlightenment" or will he/she ascend and cease form? Huh? Ever thought of this? Just my 2 cents, I must run now.... |
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Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 14, 2009 3:27:22 GMT -5
Dear LM, Individual thought is ego based, Cosmic knowledge based thought is for the common good of mankind, the planet and the general welfare of all beings.... As for the other issue.... There are certain precedences and anecdotes. The whole notion of ascension as equated to "enlightenment"would suggest leaving the body....but I am not sure myself. Randy, I do not think it is as simple as you describe. "Enlightenment" has been described by some ( who actually claim to have gone through it) as cosmic knowledge and seeing in 360 degrees etc etc, but it is hard to verbalize something like that, no matter how eager we are to do such things.....even if you have actually done it I would be suspicious as how you describe it as words cannot do IT justice... Cheers CJ Interesting ideas. Why do you say there's a difference between individual thought and cosmic thought? Why do you feel that one would leave their body once Enlightenment happens? Dear CJ, All I can say is by your comment is that enlightenment is not at all what you have read it to be or think it to be. I know it is so dissapointing for the mind and that is where you are at in your mind(no disrespect) As long as you stay in the mind you will never see what enlightenment is it is not possible. The mind was built to measure things of illusion that do not really exisit. The mind by nature causes more than one and seperation. Now in truth this does not exist but in the game of illusion it does and the mind has a part to play. And yes it is that simple but a real shift is needed to see what I am saying and that shift is never from the mind nor can one say to anyone when or to who that shift will happen. It happens or it does not. I know more dissapointment not fair but that is the way it truly is my friend and yes it is that simple. Namaste As they saying in the highlander there can only be One Randyji PS Please listen when you have a chance to S. Wingate I posted the link on another thread. He does a much better job than I describing the mind and this enlightenment. |
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Post by lightmystic on Jan 14, 2009 11:08:19 GMT -5
Hmm... My experience is that, upon realizing I was not an individual, I also realized that there never was an individual. There is only the Cosmic being, no other. Thoughts that are as if ego based are ultimately no different than other thoughts in their essential nature. They are not "ours." That's the whole initial mistake. Realizing that opens one up to cosmic knowledge. After all, with the assumption of limitation, how can one truly let in what you refer to as cosmic knowledge? Sorry, but everything I've heard about ascension screams BS. I could be wrong as I'm not educated, but leaving the body and Enlightenment have nothing to do with each other. It's a fairy tale. Dear LM, Individual thought is ego based, Cosmic knowledge based thought is for the common good of mankind, the planet and the general welfare of all beings.... As for the other issue.... There are certain precedences and anecdotes. The whole notion of ascension as equated to "enlightenment"would suggest leaving the body....but I am not sure myself. Randy, I do not think it is as simple as you describe. "Enlightenment" has been described by some ( who actually claim to have gone through it) as cosmic knowledge and seeing in 360 degrees etc etc, but it is hard to verbalize something like that, no matter how eager we are to do such things.....even if you have actually done it I would be suspicious as how you describe it as words cannot do IT justice... Cheers CJ Interesting ideas. Why do you say there's a difference between individual thought and cosmic thought? Why do you feel that one would leave their body once Enlightenment happens? |
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fear
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Post by fear on Jan 15, 2009 2:43:20 GMT -5
Dwbh1953, everything you say can be applied right back to you. You only have knowlege about enlightenment. You only have the knowledge that there is no one to be enlightened. You only want to confirm the answers you already have thereby just strengthening your ego, so I'll ask you your own question, do you think you are your thoughts?
I have the knowledge that my thoughts are not mine but if I'm honest with myself, I'd say that I identify with my thoughts like evertime I think "I". So when I wake up in the morning and say I have to brush my teeth, I feel that it is my teeth that I'm brushing, so to answer your question, I do think most of my thoughts are mine but i suspect that there is more going on but I don't have the proof yet.
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Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 15, 2009 9:31:19 GMT -5
Dwbh1953, everything you say can be applied right back to you. You only have knowlege about enlightenment. You only have the knowledge that there is no one to be enlightened. You only want to confirm the answers you already have thereby just strengthening your ego, so I'll ask you your own question, do you think you are your thoughts? I have the knowledge that my thoughts are not mine but if I'm honest with myself, I'd say that I identify with my thoughts like evertime I think "I". So when I wake up in the morning and say I have to brush my teeth, I feel that it is my teeth that I'm brushing, so to answer your question, I do think most of my thoughts are mine but i suspect that there is more going on but I don't have the proof yet. Hi Fear, I have no ownership of thoughts they just come and go. What has to be understood is what we are talking about cannot be well described with words. Once you say I then your in duality again. Take a look at your words above ..see how many times I is there. There is no I only a Isness of what is. This is why conversation about non duality can only take you to a certain point and that is it but it is not IT if you follow me. Anything fromthe mind which is everything in words can never be the Oneness spoken about. Fear it is something else..try to get rid of the I and see what is left.What is left is Oneness, enlightenment , awakening etc etc. Cheers Randji I |
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Post by klaus on Jan 15, 2009 13:37:30 GMT -5
lightmystic, read chapter 5.
fear, i do this in order to recognize the "garbage" which is always arising. It is theatre, the play.
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