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Post by andrew on Dec 8, 2019 10:47:56 GMT -5
i thought it was a great description but non-dualists don't like descriptions. So it's only 'not' non-dual because of what you think those that recognise Oneness don't like? kind of, yes
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Post by enigma on Dec 8, 2019 11:14:36 GMT -5
You're not listening to me. Tenka denies that it is a pointer. Then he would be right because it isn't a pointer. Wow, it must be super duper special!
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Post by enigma on Dec 8, 2019 11:22:57 GMT -5
All I see is your attachment. You're attached to seeing my attachment. 😀 It's not so much an attachment to I AM as it is attachment to making me wrong, so the I Am discussion is pointless. We might as well be talking about the color of Rudolph's nose.
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Post by satchitananda on Dec 8, 2019 11:42:00 GMT -5
You're attached to seeing my attachment. 😀 It's not so much an attachment to I AM as it is attachment to making me wrong, so the I Am discussion is pointless. We might as well be talking about the color of Rudolph's nose. So you're telling me you aren't aware of the I Am sense? It's vague like Rudolph's nose?
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Post by enigma on Dec 8, 2019 11:45:43 GMT -5
LOL, Being aware of awareness doesn't need words either, but talking about it does, in precisely the same was as being aware of I AM does. Being aware of I AM doesn't require the necessity to convert anything into words . Consciousness is a word you have made up and has already been converted into something of meaning . Everyone on this forum has the awareness of I AM that doesn't require any amendments or conversions . Your backing the wrong horse here . I AM are the words we're talking about. We're not talking about being aware of it, or as Satch is playing it, experiencing it. You think they're in a whole different category than consciousness. You think they're not a concept, not a pointer, and not the least bit vague and don't require any explanation.
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Post by enigma on Dec 8, 2019 11:49:02 GMT -5
When I say it I mean there is no thing or non thing in control. Control is a notion born of human fear. Boundless creation has no interest in control. God is literally out of control. What looks like a disinterest in control to you, is actually boundless destruction that is absolutely necessary for boundless creation to have it's way. Boundless destruction would still look like control. Besides, I don't see boundless destruction, nor do I see creation needing to have it's way.
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Post by enigma on Dec 8, 2019 11:53:24 GMT -5
And I'll answer it yet again. You know what a nightly dream is because you have a belief about what waking life is. That belief is the comparison for knowing what a nightly dream is, and also what a waking dream actually is. Equally said you know what a waking world is because you have a belief about what the nightly dream is . Your just spinning stuff around as per usual here . The dream metaphor is flawed because you don't have a real comparison, you have a belief that the waking world is like a dream without having a comparison for it's opposite . You don't have an experience of that opposite belief do you . You have no experience of the waking state not being like a dream do you . You only believe in dreams . That's your problem, because you have no comparison for what isn't dreamlike . It's all one sided and you need both sides present . Your beliefs are very real to you. You know full well the difference between a dream and waking life. That's the comparison you can't seem to find.
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Post by enigma on Dec 8, 2019 11:56:33 GMT -5
I'm saying you dismiss the idea of 'no world' because you misinterpret it to mean 'no experience'. I dismiss the idea of no world, no realness, no peep because I dismiss the idea . Would you like to talk about the idea being presented, or stick with your misinterpretation?
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Post by someNOTHING! on Dec 8, 2019 12:00:39 GMT -5
I've spoken of Intelligence many times. It's even possible that Gopal got it from me. It's my preferred term for Consciousness/Awareness. But what is the relationship between Intelligence and All That Is? (The Whole) Don’t think in relationships as that necessitates a duality which the mind will run with. It’s about a Conscious Intelligent Awareness. It’s, like, the original CIA, but don’t let them know that I told you. 🤫
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Post by someNOTHING! on Dec 8, 2019 12:13:27 GMT -5
The one actively looking for it is hiding by pretending to be the one to look. There is no way to engage another ego, even to the point of naming it, without embodying it. Nonsense. So, you believe there’s a SOCI, that It is controlling a separate you and that It is ordering everything and presenting it via individualized separate forms of phenomena, including your own thoughts, conditioning, and birth. And that, apparently, there’s no potential for any release from any such constricted way of thinking. As such, any perceived expression of anything counter to this, unless stated by the biggies, is just delusion. Therefore, unless one is a biggie, one just bound to ignorance and forced to walk the line and never be released from bondage. Something like that?
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 8, 2019 12:46:39 GMT -5
So, you believe there’s a SOCI, that It is controlling a separate you and that It is ordering everything and presenting it via individualized separate forms of phenomena, including your own thoughts, conditioning, and birth. And that, apparently, there’s no potential for any release from any such constricted way of thinking. As such, any perceived expression of anything counter to this, unless stated by the biggies, is just delusion. Therefore, unless one is a biggie, one just bound to ignorance and forced to walk the line and never be released from bondage. Something like that? No, nothing like that. This is a start. plato.stanford.edu/entries/panentheism/
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Post by someNOTHING! on Dec 8, 2019 12:49:03 GMT -5
Yes, I agree, I understand. But I don't think E accepts even this. Yes, he will say that Intelligence is operating (but he will not define that intelligence), but ATST he says the Whole isn't conscious of itself, the Whole isn't Conscious of the Whole. IOW, the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. That makes no sense to me. I, see, coordination, within the Whole. (The Whole is simultaneously the back messy side of the tapestry and the marvelous picture front side). IOW, events occur in time, and space. Consciousness takes the messy back side stitches and makes of them a beautiful picture. Consciousness constantly, in time, makes lemonade out of lemons. IOW, the small context cannot mess up the larger context. The way I see it, The universe is Love, perfection, harmony, beauty, wonder; the body of God. It's not intended, it simply is because God is. It is also not known. In order to know anything, a dichotomy must form such that Love may be known by that which seems to not be Love. Enter the illusion of mind. God has fallen into his own dream of limitation, boundaries, beginnings and endings. He has fallen into ignorance so that the truth can be known, walked into prison so that freedom can be found. It's one thing to be Love, and quite another to know Love. But indeed, the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing. God is not a knower, he only dreams of knowing. Not a Lover, he only dreams of Loving. And out of that dream the wonder of God is made manifest. Nice. Very nice. Being simply is. The knowledge of mind is but an appearance of a reflection as thought; whereas, Realization is Knowing of Intelligence, and if IT isn’t present/now, it is but a reflection in mind. Based on movements of mind (i.e., necessarily dualistic foundations of beliefs, logic, theories, etc.), such thoughts are subject to all sorts of distortion. The Realization of simply Being, is to see how mind is informed, to be more aware of how Intelligence flows.
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Post by someNOTHING! on Dec 8, 2019 12:58:11 GMT -5
So, you believe there’s a SOCI, that It is controlling a separate you and that It is ordering everything and presenting it via individualized separate forms of phenomena, including your own thoughts, conditioning, and birth. And that, apparently, there’s no potential for any release from any such constricted way of thinking. As such, any perceived expression of anything counter to this, unless stated by the biggies, is just delusion. Therefore, unless one is a biggie, one just bound to ignorance and forced to walk the line and never be released from bondage. Something like that? No, nothing like that. Okay then, I won’t guess at what you’re on about anymore. I was just extrapolating based on memory of previous posts and how you addressed L’s ping between the eyes. Edit: OK, you’ve provided a link while I replied. So, in a way, you see the situation as kinda non dual and kinda dual, but when it comes to comparing the free flow of ideas/pointers, you kinda prefer some over others because they feel closer to your given thought process at that time. Closer?
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Post by tenka on Dec 8, 2019 14:45:03 GMT -5
Being aware of I AM doesn't require the necessity to convert anything into words . Consciousness is a word you have made up and has already been converted into something of meaning . Everyone on this forum has the awareness of I AM that doesn't require any amendments or conversions . Your backing the wrong horse here . I AM are the words we're talking about. We're not talking about being aware of it, or as Satch is playing it, experiencing it. You think they're in a whole different category than consciousness. You think they're not a concept, not a pointer, and not the least bit vague and don't require any explanation. Forget about the words I AM and just home in on where awareness is located / felt / sensed .. Where is it? Over there? Outside your back door? Under the duvet? Where is the sense of one's awareness? I assure you when you locate it, consciousness as a word won't be there ..
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Post by tenka on Dec 8, 2019 14:45:59 GMT -5
Equally said you know what a waking world is because you have a belief about what the nightly dream is . Your just spinning stuff around as per usual here . The dream metaphor is flawed because you don't have a real comparison, you have a belief that the waking world is like a dream without having a comparison for it's opposite . You don't have an experience of that opposite belief do you . You have no experience of the waking state not being like a dream do you . You only believe in dreams . That's your problem, because you have no comparison for what isn't dreamlike . It's all one sided and you need both sides present . Your beliefs are very real to you. You know full well the difference between a dream and waking life. That's the comparison you can't seem to find. I am asking for your comparison, do you have one? I am still waiting for an answer regarding Marie, when you ask her if she wants a cup to tea are you asking Marie or are you asking time and space or the natural laws of the universe?
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