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Post by enigma on Dec 8, 2019 1:12:37 GMT -5
It's all because of them high highfalutin calculator contraptions. Things were better when we had to walk uphill in both directions to and from school. I remember that. Musta been some sort of gravity anomaly.
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Post by enigma on Dec 8, 2019 1:17:41 GMT -5
If it does not, it is far more than vague, and far less than useless. It's a direct experience, it's sensed, it's felt. No understanding is necessary. It's the least vague thing that's possible to know. All I see is your attachment.
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Post by satchitananda on Dec 8, 2019 1:25:43 GMT -5
It's a direct experience, it's sensed, it's felt. No understanding is necessary. It's the least vague thing that's possible to know. All I see is your attachment. You're attached to seeing my attachment. 😀
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Post by enigma on Dec 8, 2019 1:39:49 GMT -5
Any notion of " control" is a micromanagment 'dusty. The c0ckpit is empty, ain't noone at the wheel, and the state, is quite headless. That's absurd. I'll ask again (post above) What's dreaming the dream? If we are all merely dream actors, then the Dreamer has all the control. Yes? No? You don't even have control of your nightly dream. Why should God have control of your waking dream?
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Post by tenka on Dec 8, 2019 5:09:48 GMT -5
LOL, Consciousness is a made up word ... being aware of I AM doesn't need words .. LOL, Being aware of awareness doesn't need words either, but talking about it does, in precisely the same was as being aware of I AM does. Being aware of I AM doesn't require the necessity to convert anything into words . Consciousness is a word you have made up and has already been converted into something of meaning . Everyone on this forum has the awareness of I AM that doesn't require any amendments or conversions . Your backing the wrong horse here .
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 5:10:17 GMT -5
When people say that there is nothing in control.. they mean that what is 'in control' isn't a thing, as in it isn't anything that the human mind can successfully conceptualise, because it has no form, other than what's happening right now. When I say it I mean there is no thing or non thing in control. Control is a notion born of human fear. Boundless creation has no interest in control. God is literally out of control. What looks like a disinterest in control to you, is actually boundless destruction that is absolutely necessary for boundless creation to have it's way.
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Post by tenka on Dec 8, 2019 5:15:03 GMT -5
The dream analogy isn't clear at all because you have no comparison for what isn't . It's hot air, nuffin more, nuffin less . Unless u wanna tell me about the reality you have experienced that isn't a dream, butt I have asked u this a 100 times now . And I'll answer it yet again. You know what a nightly dream is because you have a belief about what waking life is. That belief is the comparison for knowing what a nightly dream is, and also what a waking dream actually is. Equally said you know what a waking world is because you have a belief about what the nightly dream is . Your just spinning stuff around as per usual here . The dream metaphor is flawed because you don't have a real comparison, you have a belief that the waking world is like a dream without having a comparison for it's opposite . You don't have an experience of that opposite belief do you . You have no experience of the waking state not being like a dream do you . You only believe in dreams . That's your problem, because you have no comparison for what isn't dreamlike . It's all one sided and you need both sides present .
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Post by tenka on Dec 8, 2019 5:17:15 GMT -5
How anyone see's things is subjective, what bloody consciousness means or is is also subjective, u like many here speak with conviction and yet the world is but a dream and the awareness of self or I isn't stable or true or real .. Stop trying to be convincing when your foundation is only subjective, concluded by a non entity .. It really takes the biscuit, the foundation is riddled with instabilities .. I'm saying you dismiss the idea of 'no world' because you misinterpret it to mean 'no experience'. I dismiss the idea of no world, no realness, no peep because I dismiss the idea .
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 5:22:56 GMT -5
I think the self referencing thoughts occur after the fact. They do reinforce the reaction, erect defenses, soften the blow, but the reaction is not the thoughts that follow it. And this is the weird thing about mushin, the reaction still happens, like a bulge in the blanket when you are making the bed. It forms but gets smoothed out. The thoughts don't follow. Because eveything that rises is allowed, fits perfectly, even Gopal's quirkiness. Example: If your mother tells you you're a piece sh$$t and she regrets ever given birth to you, the knot in the chest forms and then subsides. There is no thinking after the fact. "She really didn't mean it. She was drunk. She needs to die. I hate her. I love her. I need to move her to a home. I need to move." Now I'm offering this version because this is how I experience life in a "no-thought" state. I'm open to the possibility that an SR person might experience it differently. You might not react at all. I'm open to that notion, which could imply there's something there in mushin still identifying with the story. But this is as far as I can get and it is actually quite awesome, life just flows. Ego spends most of it's time underground. Go tell that to Roy.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 5:32:04 GMT -5
Yes, I agree, I understand. But I don't think E accepts even this. Yes, he will say that Intelligence is operating (but he will not define that intelligence), but ATST he says the Whole isn't conscious of itself, the Whole isn't Conscious of the Whole. IOW, the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. That makes no sense to me. I, see, coordination, within the Whole. (The Whole is simultaneously the back messy side of the tapestry and the marvelous picture front side). IOW, events occur in time, and space. Consciousness takes the messy back side stitches and makes of them a beautiful picture. Consciousness constantly, in time, makes lemonade out of lemons. IOW, the small context cannot mess up the larger context. The way I see it, The universe is Love, perfection, harmony, beauty, wonder; the body of God. It's not intended, it simply is because God is. It is also not known. In order to know anything, a dichotomy must form such that Love may be known by that which seems to not be Love. Enter the illusion of mind. God has fallen into his own dream of limitation, boundaries, beginnings and endings. He has fallen into ignorance so that the truth can be known, walked into prison so that freedom can be found. It's one thing to be Love, and quite another to know Love. But indeed, the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing. God is not a knower, he only dreams of knowing. Not a Lover, he only dreams of Loving. And out of that dream the wonder of God is made manifest. Seth's concept of God."He is not human in your terms, though he passed through human stages; and here the Buddhist myth comes closer to approximating reality. He is not one individual, but an energy gestalt. If you remember what I said about the way in which the universe expands, that it has nothing to do with space, then you may perhaps dimly perceive the existence of a psychic pyramid of interrelated, ever-expanding consciousness that creates, simultaneously and instantaneously, universes and individuals that are given -- through the gifts of personal perspective -- duration, psychic comprehension, intelligence and eternal validity. This absolute, ever-expanding instantaneous psychic gestalt, which you may call God if you prefer, is so secure in it's existence that it can constantly break itself down and rebuild itself. It's energy is so unbelievable that it does indeed form all universes; and because it's energy is within and behind all universes, systems, and fields, it is indeed aware of each sparrow that falls, for it is each sparrow that falls."
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Post by andrew on Dec 8, 2019 7:46:57 GMT -5
The way I see it, The universe is Love, perfection, harmony, beauty, wonder; the body of God. It's not intended, it simply is because God is. It is also not known. In order to know anything, a dichotomy must form such that Love may be known by that which seems to not be Love. Enter the illusion of mind. God has fallen into his own dream of limitation, boundaries, beginnings and endings. He has fallen into ignorance so that the truth can be known, walked into prison so that freedom can be found. It's one thing to be Love, and quite another to know Love. But indeed, the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing. God is not a knower, he only dreams of knowing. Not a Lover, he only dreams of Loving. And out of that dream the wonder of God is made manifest. Seth's concept of God."He is not human in your terms, though he passed through human stages; and here the Buddhist myth comes closer to approximating reality. He is not one individual, but an energy gestalt. If you remember what I said about the way in which the universe expands, that it has nothing to do with space, then you may perhaps dimly perceive the existence of a psychic pyramid of interrelated, ever-expanding consciousness that creates, simultaneously and instantaneously, universes and individuals that are given -- through the gifts of personal perspective -- duration, psychic comprehension, intelligence and eternal validity. This absolute, ever-expanding instantaneous psychic gestalt, which you may call God if you prefer, is so secure in it's existence that it can constantly break itself down and rebuild itself. It's energy is so unbelievable that it does indeed form all universes; and because it's energy is within and behind all universes, systems, and fields, it is indeed aware of each sparrow that falls, for it is each sparrow that falls." it's not 'non-dual' but I like it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 8:24:52 GMT -5
Seth's concept of God."He is not human in your terms, though he passed through human stages; and here the Buddhist myth comes closer to approximating reality. He is not one individual, but an energy gestalt. If you remember what I said about the way in which the universe expands, that it has nothing to do with space, then you may perhaps dimly perceive the existence of a psychic pyramid of interrelated, ever-expanding consciousness that creates, simultaneously and instantaneously, universes and individuals that are given -- through the gifts of personal perspective -- duration, psychic comprehension, intelligence and eternal validity. This absolute, ever-expanding instantaneous psychic gestalt, which you may call God if you prefer, is so secure in it's existence that it can constantly break itself down and rebuild itself. It's energy is so unbelievable that it does indeed form all universes; and because it's energy is within and behind all universes, systems, and fields, it is indeed aware of each sparrow that falls, for it is each sparrow that falls." it's not 'non-dual' but I like it. If you don't think that it describes the One Reality then that's fine.
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Post by andrew on Dec 8, 2019 8:29:54 GMT -5
it's not 'non-dual' but I like it. If you don't think that it describes the One Reality then that's fine. i thought it was a great description but non-dualists don't like descriptions.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 8:48:06 GMT -5
If you don't think that it describes the One Reality then that's fine. i thought it was a great description but non-dualists don't like descriptions. So it's only 'not' non-dual because of what you think those that recognise Oneness don't like?
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 8, 2019 9:31:53 GMT -5
The difference between you and Gopal, you think Nothing is in control of things happening, events. Gopal, and I, see an Encompassing Intelligence Operating. I've spoken of Intelligence many times. It's even possible that Gopal got it from me. It's my preferred term for Consciousness/Awareness. But what is the relationship between Intelligence and All That Is? (The Whole)
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