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Post by tenka on Dec 8, 2019 14:46:42 GMT -5
I dismiss the idea of no world, no realness, no peep because I dismiss the idea . Would you like to talk about the idea being presented, or stick with your misinterpretation? I prefer to stick to my dismissal of the ideas presented .
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Post by laughter on Dec 8, 2019 16:16:37 GMT -5
Not only that, she's very curious about nonduality. What we call "dharma talks". If someone believes that what people who are in prayer believe about the world is important .. well, that's their business, I won't hold it against them. Just as what's happening in my brain, is mine. OK. Good. (I was in a similar situation. Married 15 years. Divorced over 20 years). Today Father Joe described the biblical metaphor of the mountaintop as a place where where perspective shifts, and everything remains exactly as it was, but seems entirely different.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 8, 2019 17:32:52 GMT -5
Okay then, I won’t guess at what you’re on about anymore. I was just extrapolating based on memory of previous posts and how you addressed L’s ping between the eyes. Edit: OK, you’ve provided a link while I replied. So, in a way, you see the situation as kinda non dual and kinda dual, but when it comes to comparing the free flow of ideas/pointers, you kinda prefer some over others because they feel closer to your given thought process at that time. Closer? I accept the ancient Great Chain of Being roughly described by Plotinus and The Kabbalah Tree of Life. As described by Gurdjieff's Ray of Creation. The Absolute is the One, Whole (yes, I have labeled it Supreme, Conscious, Ordering Intelligence). The One forms a first manifest world which consists of three laws or three forces, 1/active/positive, 2 passive/negative, 3/neutralizing/balancing. This is essentially the three gunas, in order, rajas, tamas, sattva. These three forces then form a second manifest world, which consists of these three forces/laws, plus an additional three laws, so this could be called world 6 (3 + 3 new laws = 6). At this point and from then on, the One does not directly influence world 6, but only through world 3. But then world 6 forms a third order of worlds, which becomes world 12. 3 + 6 + 3 new laws = 12. But then world 12 forms a fourth order of worlds, which becomes world 24. 3 + 6 + 12 + 3 new laws = 24. But then world 24 forms a fifth order of worlds, which becomes world 48. 3 + 6 + 12 + 24 + 3 new laws = 48. In our Ray of Creation, Earth is world 48. So between our world and the Absolute there are 5 orders of separation. And FAIAP each world is a world unto itself. The universe is built upon the quantum principle. So there is a quantum "gap" between world One and 3, and between 3 and 6, and between 6 and 12 and between 12 and 24 and between 24 and 48. So our world seems like the whole of existence. But physics knows it is merely only about 4% of the universe, that about 96% of the universe is ~missing~. They call this missing universe dark matter and dark energy. Now each of the worlds are formed on the basis of the octave, in fact descending octaves (instead of do, re, mi, fa, sol, la, si; we have do, si, la, sol, fa, mi, re, do. Each do is the beginning of a new successive world). Also, each world formed is like a step-down transformer, less energy, slower vibrations. So our material world 48 is the densest matter, the slowest vibrations. As an aside, this description of the worlds gives a ~place~ for Seth and A-H to exist, a world of finer vibrations, world 24 or 12 most likely. So what you attribute to me, God in control and micromanaging, just is not possible. God (the Absolute, One) cannot directly influence our world 48. This is a bare bones description of my view of the structure of the universe. It is panentheistic (the link), because the Absolute, or the One, exists apart-from and supersedes world 3, world 6, world 12, world 24, world 48. The worlds consist of triads of triads of triads...etc. All events, people, places, things, consist of the interaction of the three forces, active, passive and neutralizing, multiple interactions. The law of 7 (octaves) and the law of 3 are the two fundamental laws of the universe. Everything operates according to these two laws. This descent of energy, successive lowering of levels of vibration, is called involution. The return towards the One is the evolution of consciousness, traversing the worlds upward. From the signature quote below, essence comes from the higher worlds, that is, from above, vertical, upward.
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Post by someNOTHING! on Dec 8, 2019 17:59:47 GMT -5
Okay then, I won’t guess at what you’re on about anymore. I was just extrapolating based on memory of previous posts and how you addressed L’s ping between the eyes. Edit: OK, you’ve provided a link while I replied. So, in a way, you see the situation as kinda non dual and kinda dual, but when it comes to comparing the free flow of ideas/pointers, you kinda prefer some over others because they feel closer to your given thought process at that time. Closer? I accept the ancient Great Chain of Being roughly described by Plotinus and The Kabbalah Tree of Life. As described by Gurdjieff's Ray of Creation. The Absolute is the One, Whole (yes, I have labeled it Supreme, Conscious, Ordering Intelligence). The One forms a first manifest world which consists of three laws or three forces, 1/active/positive, 2 passive/negative, 3/neutralizing/balancing. This is essentially the three gunas, in order, rajas, tamas, sattva. These three forces then form a second manifest world, which consists of these three forces/laws, plus an additional three laws, so this could be called world 6 (3 + 3 new laws = 6). At this point and from then on, the One does not directly influence world 6, but only through world 3. But then world 6 forms a third order of worlds, which becomes world 12. 3 + 6 + 3 new laws = 12. But then world 12 forms a fourth order of worlds, which becomes world 24. 3 + 6 + 12 + 3 new laws = 24. But then world 24 forms a fifth order of worlds, which becomes world 48. 3 + 6 + 12 + 24 + 3 new laws = 48. In our Ray of Creation, Earth is world 48. So between our world and the Absolute there are 5 orders of separation. And FAIAP each world is a world unto itself. The universe is built upon the quantum principle. So there is a quantum "gap" between world One and 3, and between 3 and 6, and between 6 and 12 and between 12 and 24 and between 24 and 48. So our world seems like the whole of existence. But physics knows it is merely only about 4% of the universe, that about 96% of the universe is ~missing~. They call this missing universe dark matter and dark energy. Now each of the worlds are formed on the basis of the octave, in fact descending octaves (instead of do, re, mi, fa, sol, la, si; we have do, si, la, sol, fa, mi, re, do. Each do is the beginning of a new successive world). Also, each world formed is like a step-down transformer, less energy, slower vibrations. So our material world 48 is the densest matter, the slowest vibrations. As an aside, this description of the worlds gives a ~place~ for Seth and A-H to exist, a world of finer vibrations, world 24 or 12 most likely. So what you attribute to me, God in control and micromanaging, just is not possible. God (the Absolute, One) cannot directly influence our world 48. This is a bare bones description of my view of the structure of the universe. It is panentheistic (the link), because the Absolute, or the One, exists apart-from and supersedes world 3, world 6, world 12, world 24, world 48. The worlds consist of triads of triads of triads...etc. All events, people, places, things, consist of the interaction of the three forces, active, passive and neutralizing, multiple interactions. The law of 7 (octaves) and the law of 3 are the two fundamental laws of the universe. Everything operates according to these two laws. I do recognize this as I played with the Music of the Spheres stuff while contemplating existential platitudes. I'll take a look at it again and see what comes up. I do distinctly remember striking notes on a guitar and resonating with the sound as it traveled outward while also delving inward in/as awareness.
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Post by enigma on Dec 8, 2019 19:52:35 GMT -5
The way I see it, The universe is Love, perfection, harmony, beauty, wonder; the body of God. It's not intended, it simply is because God is. It is also not known. In order to know anything, a dichotomy must form such that Love may be known by that which seems to not be Love. Enter the illusion of mind. God has fallen into his own dream of limitation, boundaries, beginnings and endings. He has fallen into ignorance so that the truth can be known, walked into prison so that freedom can be found. It's one thing to be Love, and quite another to know Love. But indeed, the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing. God is not a knower, he only dreams of knowing. Not a Lover, he only dreams of Loving. And out of that dream the wonder of God is made manifest. Seth's concept of God."He is not human in your terms, though he passed through human stages; and here the Buddhist myth comes closer to approximating reality. He is not one individual, but an energy gestalt. If you remember what I said about the way in which the universe expands, that it has nothing to do with space, then you may perhaps dimly perceive the existence of a psychic pyramid of interrelated, ever-expanding consciousness that creates, simultaneously and instantaneously, universes and individuals that are given -- through the gifts of personal perspective -- duration, psychic comprehension, intelligence and eternal validity. This absolute, ever-expanding instantaneous psychic gestalt, which you may call God if you prefer, is so secure in it's existence that it can constantly break itself down and rebuild itself. It's energy is so unbelievable that it does indeed form all universes; and because it's energy is within and behind all universes, systems, and fields, it is indeed aware of each sparrow that falls, for it is each sparrow that falls." I don't have any major problems with that.
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Post by enigma on Dec 8, 2019 19:55:56 GMT -5
I've spoken of Intelligence many times. It's even possible that Gopal got it from me. It's my preferred term for Consciousness/Awareness. But what is the relationship between Intelligence and All That Is? (The Whole) I don't see Intelligence as somehow other than 'The Whole'.
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Post by satchitananda on Dec 8, 2019 19:57:53 GMT -5
I don't have any major problems with that. Now why doesn't that surprise me? 😀😀
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Post by enigma on Dec 8, 2019 20:02:21 GMT -5
It's not so much an attachment to I AM as it is attachment to making me wrong, so the I Am discussion is pointless. We might as well be talking about the color of Rudolph's nose. So you're telling me you aren't aware of the I Am sense? It's vague like Rudolph's nose? What in blazes is an 'i am' sense? You see, the words are not enough. The only way I can relate the sense of I am is the sense of my own existence, but that's one of many interpretations, which has been my point. It's as vague as all the other terms we use here.
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Post by enigma on Dec 8, 2019 20:06:00 GMT -5
But what is the relationship between Intelligence and All That Is? (The Whole) Don’t think in relationships as that necessitates a duality which the mind will run with. It’s about a Conscious Intelligent Awareness. It’s, like, the original CIA, but don’t let them know that I told you. 🤫 Oh, but they already do.
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Post by satchitananda on Dec 8, 2019 20:06:16 GMT -5
The only way I can relate the sense of I am is the sense of my own existence, That wasn't so hard was it?
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Post by enigma on Dec 8, 2019 20:20:38 GMT -5
The way I see it, The universe is Love, perfection, harmony, beauty, wonder; the body of God. It's not intended, it simply is because God is. It is also not known. In order to know anything, a dichotomy must form such that Love may be known by that which seems to not be Love. Enter the illusion of mind. God has fallen into his own dream of limitation, boundaries, beginnings and endings. He has fallen into ignorance so that the truth can be known, walked into prison so that freedom can be found. It's one thing to be Love, and quite another to know Love. But indeed, the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing. God is not a knower, he only dreams of knowing. Not a Lover, he only dreams of Loving. And out of that dream the wonder of God is made manifest. Nice. Very nice. Being simply is. The knowledge of mind is but an appearance of a reflection as thought; whereas, Realization is Knowing of Intelligence, and if IT isn’t present/now, it is but a reflection in mind. Based on movements of mind (i.e., necessarily dualistic foundations of beliefs, logic, theories, etc.), such thoughts are subject to all sorts of distortion. The Realization of simply Being, is to see how mind is informed, to be more aware of how Intelligence flows. Yes, falling into ignorance, the bite of the apple. Quite unavoidable, but not irrevocable.
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Post by enigma on Dec 8, 2019 20:26:20 GMT -5
I AM are the words we're talking about. We're not talking about being aware of it, or as Satch is playing it, experiencing it. You think they're in a whole different category than consciousness. You think they're not a concept, not a pointer, and not the least bit vague and don't require any explanation. Forget about the words I AM and just home in on where awareness is located / felt / sensed .. Where is it? Over there? Outside your back door? Under the duvet? Where is the sense of one's awareness? I assure you when you locate it, consciousness as a word won't be there .. Consciousness won't be there but I AM will be emblazoned across the heavens? Something like that?
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Post by enigma on Dec 8, 2019 20:32:26 GMT -5
Your beliefs are very real to you. You know full well the difference between a dream and waking life. That's the comparison you can't seem to find. I am asking for your comparison, do you have one? I am still waiting for an answer regarding Marie, when you ask her if she wants a cup to tea are you asking Marie or are you asking time and space or the natural laws of the universe? You're asking for a comparison that I just spent two days giving you, and you're asking a question that I just got through showing as misconceived. This is how you come to imagine I refuse to answer your questions.
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Post by enigma on Dec 8, 2019 20:57:23 GMT -5
The only way I can relate the sense of I am is the sense of my own existence, That wasn't so hard was it? Much harder than it needed to be. It's difficult to convey your intention while refusing to convey your intention.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 1:19:03 GMT -5
Oh.. like that. Yeah Gopal could do with visiting him. I'm sure Marie would find Gopal delightful. I'm sure he is a delightful chap, indeed. Of course, she may begin to change her mind once the late night arguments keep turning into morning arguments!
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