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Post by jay17 on Apr 23, 2015 4:42:21 GMT -5
Another Zen story...
A little bird was flying south for the winter. It was so cold that the bird froze and fell to the ground in a large field. While it was lying there, a cow came by and dropped a load of hot, steaming dung on it. As the frozen bird lay there in the pile of shit, it began to realize how warm it was. The dung was actually thawing him out!
He lay there all warm and happy and soon began to sing for joy. A passing cat heard the bird singing and came to investigate. Following the sound, the cat discovered the bird under the pile of cow dung. The cat promptly dug the bird out, killed him and ate him.
Not everyone who drops sh1t on you is your enemy and not everyone who pulls you out of sh1t is your friend.
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veter
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Post by veter on Apr 23, 2015 4:56:33 GMT -5
Another Zen story... A little bird was flying south for the winter. It was so cold that the bird froze and fell to the ground in a large field. While it was lying there, a cow came by and dropped a load of hot, steaming dung on it. As the frozen bird lay there in the pile of nuts, it began to realize how warm it was. The dung was actually thawing him out! He lay there all warm and happy and soon began to sing for joy. A passing cat heard the bird singing and came to investigate. Following the sound, the cat discovered the bird under the pile of cow dung. The cat promptly dug the bird out, killed him and ate him. Not everyone who drops sh1t on you is your enemy and not everyone who pulls you out of sh1t is your friend. Nice story. I've heard it before
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Post by laughter on Apr 23, 2015 7:02:03 GMT -5
No, not really. What jay did was to focus on one word, "neither", and thereby infer a meaning in what you wrote that you didn't intend. It's true that "none" would have conveyed the intent better, but such a narrow focus is what we refer to around here with the humorous term "word lawyering". "Word lawyering" I'll try to remember this term I know this phenomenon, I was ill with it and it happens to me sometimes. It's one of tendencies of dualistic mind (thinking): to separate, to divede, to argue, to fight. Yes, even when mind integrates or recognizes patterns, the end result is still an object, which is defined by the line between where the object begins and ends. Sometimes we have to accept that there are things we can't accept and surrender to the fight, but mind can use this as a trick of self-deception. Generally speaking, you're right, where and when there's fight there's the false. That it's impersonal, that everyone is doing the best they can and that no body/mind actually owns the thoughts that are the choice to engage negatively and personally, is a good thing to keep in mind. I've gotten sucked into the personal squabbles here and probably will again, and it's all a tremendous waste of time with no purpose. It's an incredible irony given the subject matter at issue. ... but it's very natural and to be expected. Nonduality frightens the mind and stimulates "fight or flight".
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veter
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Post by veter on Apr 23, 2015 7:12:13 GMT -5
"Word lawyering" I'll try to remember this term I know this phenomenon, I was ill with it and it happens to me sometimes. It's one of tendencies of dualistic mind (thinking): to separate, to divede, to argue, to fight. That it's impersonal, that everyone is doing the best they can and that no body/mind actually owns the thoughts that are the choice to engage negatively and personally, is a good thing to keep in mind. I've gotten sucked into the personal squabbles here and probably will again, and it's all a tremendous waste of time with no purpose. There is a purpose, it's the way how ego saves itself. It must be awared, then energy will be free from that patterns
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veter
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Post by veter on Apr 23, 2015 7:31:21 GMT -5
"Word lawyering" I'll try to remember this term I know this phenomenon, I was ill with it and it happens to me sometimes. It's one of tendencies of dualistic mind (thinking): to separate, to divede, to argue, to fight. Yes, even when mind integrates or recognizes patterns, the end result is still an object, which is defined by the line between where the object begins and ends. Sometimes we have to accept that there are things we can't accept and surrender to the fight, but mind can use this as a trick of self-deception. Generally speaking, you're right, where and when there's fight there's the false. That it's impersonal, that everyone is doing the best they can and that no body/mind actually owns the thoughts that are the choice to engage negatively and personally, is a good thing to keep in mind. I've gotten sucked into the personal squabbles here and probably will again, and it's all a tremendous waste of time with no purpose. It's an incredible irony given the subject matter at issue. ... but it's very natural and to be expected. Nonduality frightens the mind and stimulates "fight or flight". It's better to say there is perfection, manifestation is perfection. It doesn't mean everything is good, it means everything is as it is, everything is accepted by the fact of its existence! And this is a vision. It is not a toy for ego to excuse its activity. So this vision should penetrate in individual consciousness and transform it.
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Post by laughter on Apr 23, 2015 7:52:03 GMT -5
That it's impersonal, that everyone is doing the best they can and that no body/mind actually owns the thoughts that are the choice to engage negatively and personally, is a good thing to keep in mind. I've gotten sucked into the personal squabbles here and probably will again, and it's all a tremendous waste of time with no purpose. There is a purpose, it's the way how ego saves itself. It must be awared, then energy will be free from that patterns Yes, good point.
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Post by jay17 on Apr 23, 2015 14:03:13 GMT -5
Another Zen story... A little bird was flying south for the winter. It was so cold that the bird froze and fell to the ground in a large field. While it was lying there, a cow came by and dropped a load of hot, steaming dung on it. As the frozen bird lay there in the pile of nuts, it began to realize how warm it was. The dung was actually thawing him out! He lay there all warm and happy and soon began to sing for joy. A passing cat heard the bird singing and came to investigate. Following the sound, the cat discovered the bird under the pile of cow dung. The cat promptly dug the bird out, killed him and ate him. Not everyone who drops sh1t on you is your enemy and not everyone who pulls you out of sh1t is your friend. Nice story. I've heard it before Perhaps you can see this thing, veter, you have the capacity to easily admit you made a mistake... There are different styles of painting, which one is accurate? Neither of them, they are just different ways for expressing. We can only discuss if a mental model is practical or not, nothing more. Neither - Not either; not one or the other. Precisely ! It was my little mistake ...this is called, Integrity. You read my reason for why i said... In your analogy you clearly state no style of painting is accurate, (and it seems you have a limited knowledge of the subject as you state there are only two styles. Unless of course, the painting analogy is referring to your's and my thoughts on a subject...two.) ...and you somehow rechecked the convo and saw( and admitted) that you made a little mistake by using the word,"neither." But then you receive new information that suggests you never did make a little mistake, and how vastly wrong i am, and that appeals to your other internal mechanism, the desire to be right. So integrity is compromised for the sake of the pleasurable sensations of being right. If you are going to compromise your integrity within little slip-ups on your journey, what happens to your code of conduct, your state of being, how you interface with existence, future relationships with others, within more serious slip-ups you may make.
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Post by jay17 on Apr 23, 2015 14:33:38 GMT -5
"No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong." - François de La Rochefoucauld
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2015 14:57:11 GMT -5
"No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong." - François de La Rochefoucauld I wonder how many times Frankie got it wrung.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2015 15:08:08 GMT -5
"No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong." - François de La Rochefoucauld I wonder how many times Frankie got it wrung. Yeah, he obviously wasn't at a place where right and wrong stats don't exist.
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Post by laughter on Apr 23, 2015 15:19:38 GMT -5
I wonder how many times Frankie got it wrung. Yeah, he obviously wasn't at a place where right and wrong stats don't exist. (** muttley snicker **)
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Post by laughter on Apr 23, 2015 15:30:44 GMT -5
In light of this it's amusing to discern which of the three participants in the dialog between here and here did actually admit to having made at least one mistake, and which didn't. To be crystal, this post (the one you are reading) obviously embodies one of those admitted mistakes, but good slapstick comedy is often hard to resist. Integrity simply isn't possible for someone caught up in self-deception, until when and if the deception desists.
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Post by jay17 on Apr 23, 2015 17:35:44 GMT -5
"No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong." - François de La Rochefoucauld I wonder how many times Frankie got it wrung. Seems reasonable to speculate just as much as anyone else. What's important to me is determining the wrongs i do and rectifying them. Though your train of thought has nothing to do with the subject of the quote.
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veter
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Post by veter on Apr 24, 2015 1:50:58 GMT -5
I wonder how many times Frankie got it wrung. Yeah, he obviously wasn't at a place where right and wrong stats don't exist.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 1:57:51 GMT -5
I wonder how many times Frankie got it wrung. Seems reasonable to speculate just as much as anyone else. What's important to me is determining the wrongs i do and rectifying them. Though your train of thought has nothing to do with the subject of the quote. How does the process of determining a wrong, happen? And what does the rectifying look like?
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