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Post by laughter on Apr 7, 2015 23:23:52 GMT -5
Do you create every thought that forms in your mind?
Did you create the thoughts that arose from reading this sentence?
Muttley didn't. (** straight face **)
Do you own the contents of your mind? Do you have clear title? Perhaps you have an invoice from the thought warehouse?
Can you prove your proprietary interest? Can you prove your ownership?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 2:18:05 GMT -5
Do you create every thought that forms in your mind? Did you create the thoughts that arose from reading this sentence? Muttley didn't. (** straight face **)Do you own the contents of your mind? Do you have clear title? Perhaps you have an invoice from the thought warehouse? Can you prove your proprietary interest? Can you prove your ownership? These are very interesting questions. I could say I am not the owner of thoughts or perception. But there are some confusion arises here, If I am not the owner of the thoughts,then who is creating those thoughts? I would say consciousness, but Am I not consciousness?Yes I am. If so,Am I not the author my own thoughts? To resolve the problem here, we could split into inner level and surface level. inner level creates and surface level perceives, but still the problem is, how does this inner level creates without perceiving the thoughts? So the conclusion is, there can't be two levels, there is only one level which creates and perceives. So am i having the absolute control over the situation which is being created by 'I'? Yes I have absolute control over the unfolding, If so, why can't I create situation in the way I want them to be unfolded? Actually I am the creator of my situation and also I am creating them in the way that has to be unfolded, When i think 'ah why this is happening to me'? infact there is no missing control is happening here, infact I am creating the thoughts of 'ah why this is happening to me'. I am the owner of my own thoughts but not only I am not the owner of thoughts which is happening in the expression of 'Raj' but also 'Bill'. So can't I choose something? Yes I can choose, If so, how would I differ from the normal level person who conceives the idea that he could choose by himself? There is the difference, he believes he could choose separately from rest of the individuals but I do not. I could choose but when I choose I would choose for all the expression simultaneously. So am i having freewill? Actually this expression 'raj' doesn't have freewill, but the 'I' whole has the freewill to move anywhere it wish, so to speak this word 'anywhere' must be wrong, because somewhere would be created by this 'I'. So it is free to create anything it wish.
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Post by earnest on Apr 8, 2015 3:04:19 GMT -5
Do you create every thought that forms in your mind? Did you create the thoughts that arose from reading this sentence? Muttley didn't. (** straight face **)My experience is that I take receipt of them like I take receipt of sensations and feelings. I've seen enough times how they just arise in awareness all by themselves. I can do it right now,. *sits in silence* then after a little while they come, and they're the next words that I'm typing. They get pretty thin on the ground these days.. and because there is so much more silence what does arise feels increasingly flimsy and insubstantial. Also, it's clear that the silence that I used to believe was between thoughts is actually there all the time as the substrate on which thoughts come and go. And also, I've got a much greater trust that the silence will look after things and give me whatever thoughts are needed for the task at hand - its kind of fun to play with Of course there are still periods of mental churn that go on, and there is still some identification with them (although nothing like it used to be) but even that doesn't seem like much of a big deal. Thoughts are weird Do you own the contents of your mind? Do you have clear title? Perhaps you have an invoice from the thought warehouse? Can you prove your proprietary interest? Can you prove your ownership? Can't prove anything!
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Post by enigma on Apr 8, 2015 10:26:54 GMT -5
Do you create every thought that forms in your mind? Did you create the thoughts that arose from reading this sentence? Muttley didn't. (** straight face **)Do you own the contents of your mind? Do you have clear title? Perhaps you have an invoice from the thought warehouse? Can you prove your proprietary interest? Can you prove your ownership? These are very interesting questions. I could say I am not the owner of thoughts or perception. But there are some confusion arises here, If I am not the owner of the thoughts,then who is creating those thoughts? I would say consciousness, but Am I not consciousness?Yes I am. If so,Am I not the author my own thoughts? To resolve the problem here, we could split into inner level and surface level. inner level creates and surface level perceives, but still the problem is, how does this inner level creates without perceiving the thoughts? So the conclusion is, there can't be two levels, there is only one level which creates and perceives. So am i having the absolute control over the situation which is being created by 'I'? Yes I have absolute control over the unfolding, If so, why can't I create situation in the way I want them to be unfolded? Actually I am the creator of my situation and also I am creating them in the way that has to be unfolded, When i think 'ah why this is happening to me'? infact there is no missing control is happening here, infact I am creating the thoughts of 'ah why this is happening to me'. I am the owner of my own thoughts but not only I am not the owner of thoughts which is happening in the expression of 'Raj' but also 'Bill'. So can't I choose something? Yes I can choose, If so, how would I differ from the normal level person who conceives the idea that he could choose by himself? There is the difference, he believes he could choose separately from rest of the individuals but I do not. I could choose but when I choose I would choose for all the expression simultaneously. So am i having freewill? Actually this expression 'raj' doesn't have freewill, but the 'I' whole has the freewill to move anywhere it wish, so to speak this word 'anywhere' must be wrong, because somewhere would be created by this 'I'. So it is free to create anything it wish. We could say that. It's the consequence of wholeness always being whole.
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Post by enigma on Apr 8, 2015 10:40:51 GMT -5
Do you create every thought that forms in your mind? Did you create the thoughts that arose from reading this sentence? Muttley didn't. (** straight face **)My experience is that I take receipt of them like I take receipt of sensations and feelings. I've seen enough times how they just arise in awareness all by themselves. I can do it right now,. *sits in silence* then after a little while they come, and they're the next words that I'm typing. They get pretty thin on the ground these days.. and because there is so much more silence what does arise feels increasingly flimsy and insubstantial. Also, it's clear that the silence that I used to believe was between thoughts is actually there all the time as the substrate on which thoughts come and go. And also, I've got a much greater trust that the silence will look after things and give me whatever thoughts are needed for the task at hand - its kind of fun to play with Of course there are still periods of mental churn that go on, and there is still some identification with them (although nothing like it used to be) but even that doesn't seem like much of a big deal. Thoughts are weird Do you own the contents of your mind? Do you have clear title? Perhaps you have an invoice from the thought warehouse? Can you prove your proprietary interest? Can you prove your ownership? Can't prove anything! Yeah, thoughts are weird. What we're consciously aware of is the fully formed thought after it has occurred. We're not conscious of most of what's involved in the formation of that thought, so we're in the position of standing at the doorway waiting for a thought to pop out, and we generally declare it as our own thought even though we had no conscious knowledge of how or why it was formed. Thoughts are formed from our conditioning, and so they are not random, and part of becoming conscious is becoming more aware of that thought/feeling process; bringing more of it into conscious awareness by paying attention.
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Post by earnest on Apr 8, 2015 14:04:33 GMT -5
My experience is that I take receipt of them like I take receipt of sensations and feelings. I've seen enough times how they just arise in awareness all by themselves. I can do it right now,. *sits in silence* then after a little while they come, and they're the next words that I'm typing. They get pretty thin on the ground these days.. and because there is so much more silence what does arise feels increasingly flimsy and insubstantial. Also, it's clear that the silence that I used to believe was between thoughts is actually there all the time as the substrate on which thoughts come and go. And also, I've got a much greater trust that the silence will look after things and give me whatever thoughts are needed for the task at hand - its kind of fun to play with Of course there are still periods of mental churn that go on, and there is still some identification with them (although nothing like it used to be) but even that doesn't seem like much of a big deal. Thoughts are weird Can't prove anything! Yeah, thoughts are weird. What we're consciously aware of is the fully formed thought after it has occurred. We're not conscious of most of what's involved in the formation of that thought, so we're in the position of standing at the doorway waiting for a thought to pop out, and we generally declare it as our own thought even though we had no conscious knowledge of how or why it was formed. Thoughts are formed from our conditioning, and so they are not random, and part of becoming conscious is becoming more aware of that thought/feeling process; bringing more of it into conscious awareness by paying attention. I know "why" questions can be a trap,.. but i find that when attention is at the doorway, a lot less thoughts will come through. Why do you think that might be?
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Post by jay17 on Apr 8, 2015 16:52:50 GMT -5
Do you create every thought that forms in your mind? Did you create the thoughts that arose from reading this sentence? Muttley didn't. (** straight face **)Do you own the contents of your mind? Do you have clear title? Perhaps you have an invoice from the thought warehouse? Can you prove your proprietary interest? Can you prove your ownership? Do you not own the contents of your mind? Do you have clear title that you don't ? Perhaps you have an invoice from the thought warehouse that you do not own your thoughts? Can you prove you are not the proprietor of your thoughts? Can you prove you're not the owner? I have no doubt you and others who hold that the philosophy of Self Realization\Non Duality is truth and can speak for eons about it expressing all manner of confident statements it's truth. But factual testable, verifiable evidence...none so far that i have ever seen from such devotees...hence my effortless decision to not engage in lengthy discussions with such people. I do not have any inclining to be preached to. I've already done the 'dogmatic religion' part of my journey, i see no need to take another one. How many threads do you and others like you need to produce to express your profound devotion to just of one of thousands of theories about existence, till you are satisfied, till you are at peace and there is no more disturbance within yourself that you no longer feel the urge to speak.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 17:51:57 GMT -5
Do you create every thought that forms in your mind? Did you create the thoughts that arose from reading this sentence? Muttley didn't. (** straight face **)Do you own the contents of your mind? Do you have clear title? Perhaps you have an invoice from the thought warehouse? Can you prove your proprietary interest? Can you prove your ownership? laughter, are you asking because you don't know or wondering if we know we are masters of our own mind?
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Post by silver on Apr 8, 2015 18:02:41 GMT -5
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Post by laughter on Apr 8, 2015 21:45:07 GMT -5
Do you create every thought that forms in your mind? Did you create the thoughts that arose from reading this sentence? Muttley didn't. (** straight face **)Do you own the contents of your mind? Do you have clear title? Perhaps you have an invoice from the thought warehouse? Can you prove your proprietary interest? Can you prove your ownership? These are very interesting questions. I could say I am not the owner of thoughts or perception. But there are some confusion arises here, If I am not the owner of the thoughts,then who is creating those thoughts? I would say consciousness, but Am I not consciousness?Yes I am. If so,Am I not the author my own thoughts? To resolve the problem here, we could split into inner level and surface level. inner level creates and surface level perceives, but still the problem is, how does this inner level creates without perceiving the thoughts? So the conclusion is, there can't be two levels, there is only one level which creates and perceives. So am i having the absolute control over the situation which is being created by 'I'? Yes I have absolute control over the unfolding, If so, why can't I create situation in the way I want them to be unfolded? Actually I am the creator of my situation and also I am creating them in the way that has to be unfolded, When i think 'ah why this is happening to me'? infact there is no missing control is happening here, infact I am creating the thoughts of 'ah why this is happening to me'. I am the owner of my own thoughts but not only I am not the owner of thoughts which is happening in the expression of 'Raj' but also 'Bill'. So can't I choose something? Yes I can choose, If so, how would I differ from the normal level person who conceives the idea that he could choose by himself? There is the difference, he believes he could choose separately from rest of the individuals but I do not. I could choose but when I choose I would choose for all the expression simultaneously. So am i having freewill? Actually this expression 'raj' doesn't have freewill, but the 'I' whole has the freewill to move anywhere it wish, so to speak this word 'anywhere' must be wrong, because somewhere would be created by this 'I'. So it is free to create anything it wish. Interesting musings, and I can tell from reading it that you've considered these questions before, and not entirely with intellect. Now, I know that we disagree on this point, but in my opinion the answers to the questions in the OP are much simpler than your analysis, and to find them the intellect has to get out of the way. All the way out of the way. Logic and reasoning might be useful in expressing the results of the inquiry after the fact, but that depends on both who's writing and who's reading. Any conceptual structure, any theory we have about the impersonal Raj (the "I whole" with the freewill) that is the source of the thoughts will fail.
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Post by laughter on Apr 8, 2015 21:50:04 GMT -5
Do you create every thought that forms in your mind? Did you create the thoughts that arose from reading this sentence? Muttley didn't. (** straight face **)Do you own the contents of your mind? Do you have clear title? Perhaps you have an invoice from the thought warehouse? Can you prove your proprietary interest? Can you prove your ownership? laughter, are you asking because you don't know or wondering if we know we are masters of our own mind? Neither. The question was one I encountered very early on after the curiosity machine spun itself up in the informing of mind. It percolated to the forefront based on the current MT, and the expression was perhaps part nostalgia and part hope that it might be useful to someone else. The first time I read it after the center collapsed my reaction was "Whaaaat? What a dumb question! Of course I .... oh ...". It's amusing how the old conditioned loops run on auto-repeat, and I've never laughed so hard but at the observation of the results of them going on in my own head.
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Post by laughter on Apr 8, 2015 21:52:36 GMT -5
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Post by laughter on Apr 8, 2015 21:57:56 GMT -5
Do you create every thought that forms in your mind? Did you create the thoughts that arose from reading this sentence? Muttley didn't. (** straight face **)My experience is that I take receipt of them like I take receipt of sensations and feelings. I've seen enough times how they just arise in awareness all by themselves. I can do it right now,. *sits in silence* then after a little while they come, and they're the next words that I'm typing. They get pretty thin on the ground these days.. and because there is so much more silence what does arise feels increasingly flimsy and insubstantial. Also, it's clear that the silence that I used to believe was between thoughts is actually there all the time as the substrate on which thoughts come and go. And also, I've got a much greater trust that the silence will look after things and give me whatever thoughts are needed for the task at hand - its kind of fun to play with Of course there are still periods of mental churn that go on, and there is still some identification with them (although nothing like it used to be) but even that doesn't seem like much of a big deal. Thoughts are weird Do you own the contents of your mind? Do you have clear title? Perhaps you have an invoice from the thought warehouse? Can you prove your proprietary interest? Can you prove your ownership? Can't prove anything! Yeah, I can relate to all that Earnie. That is the way to answer those questions -- look with still mind and let that which is beyond mind inform on the issue. Sounds all woo-woo and mystical but in the happening it's just sooooooo simple, quiet, and common, as what is beyond mind is what is here and now, under our fingers as we type, butts in chairs, eyes on screens, air in lungs, etc ...
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Post by laughter on Apr 8, 2015 22:04:21 GMT -5
My experience is that I take receipt of them like I take receipt of sensations and feelings. I've seen enough times how they just arise in awareness all by themselves. I can do it right now,. *sits in silence* then after a little while they come, and they're the next words that I'm typing. They get pretty thin on the ground these days.. and because there is so much more silence what does arise feels increasingly flimsy and insubstantial. Also, it's clear that the silence that I used to believe was between thoughts is actually there all the time as the substrate on which thoughts come and go. And also, I've got a much greater trust that the silence will look after things and give me whatever thoughts are needed for the task at hand - its kind of fun to play with Of course there are still periods of mental churn that go on, and there is still some identification with them (although nothing like it used to be) but even that doesn't seem like much of a big deal. Thoughts are weird Can't prove anything! Yeah, thoughts are weird. What we're consciously aware of is the fully formed thought after it has occurred. We're not conscious of most of what's involved in the formation of that thought, so we're in the position of standing at the doorway waiting for a thought to pop out, and we generally declare it as our own thought even though we had no conscious knowledge of how or why it was formed. Thoughts are formed from our conditioning, and so they are not random, and part of becoming conscious is becoming more aware of that thought/feeling process; bringing more of it into conscious awareness by paying attention. And that conditioning, in terms of time and materially bound appearances, is incredibly rich, complex, layered, and textured, encompassing processes that have been going on for billions of years. In the genuine quiet of the orientation of the witness, with the intellect and emotions quiesced, none of it obscures, and that's the other meaning of the word clarity.
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Post by laughter on Apr 8, 2015 22:08:29 GMT -5
Do you create every thought that forms in your mind? Did you create the thoughts that arose from reading this sentence? Muttley didn't. (** straight face **)Do you own the contents of your mind? Do you have clear title? Perhaps you have an invoice from the thought warehouse? Can you prove your proprietary interest? Can you prove your ownership? Do you not own the contents of your mind? Do you have clear title that you don't ? Perhaps you have an invoice from the thought warehouse that you do not own your thoughts? Can you prove you are not the proprietor of your thoughts? Can you prove you're not the owner? I have no doubt you and others who hold that the philosophy of Self Realization\Non Duality is truth and can speak for eons about it expressing all manner of confident statements it's truth. But factual testable, verifiable evidence...none so far that i have ever seen from such devotees...hence my effortless decision to not engage in lengthy discussions with such people. I do not have any inclining to be preached to. I've already done the 'dogmatic religion' part of my journey, i see no need to take another one. How many threads do you and others like you need to produce to express your profound devotion to just of one of thousands of theories about existence, till you are satisfied, till you are at peace and there is no more disturbance within yourself that you no longer feel the urge to speak. hostile much?
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