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Post by enigma on Mar 1, 2015 14:16:23 GMT -5
It's like walking through a "mindfield" around here. And the idea that making you confused isn't making you wrong was a major ordinance malfunction. That's when it's best to just throw rocks at it from a distance rather than try to diffuse it.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Mar 1, 2015 14:16:55 GMT -5
gopal, you and enigma are not talking from the same context. Can you elaborate? I've been elaborating since you have been here on ST's. I'm out of time right now.......but I'm not inclined to elaborate......not my problem......let's just say that enigma is not in to clarity, he basks in obfuscation.........You have to absolutely nail him to the wall to get real clarity from him.
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Post by enigma on Mar 1, 2015 14:20:22 GMT -5
As you say, unhappy defines happy. That's the realization. The realization does not consist of a comparison of experiences from one time period to the next. If it did, everybody would know from their own personal experience that polarities mutually define, and therefore both polarities must be present simultaneously, but most don't know that. If your realization is based on empirical evidence, that evidence may change, and you'll lose the realization. That's not how realization works. realization is self evident, not empirical. Actually in my case, it has been the case many years but i hadn't noticed that, Once I was walking besides the big building, it suddenly strikes me, and then immediately recalling happens and then everything was fit exactly. So Is it my realization has happened based on empirical evidence? Second,How about your realization? how is it possible for you without having happy/unhappy experience? I've had lots of happy and unhappy experiences.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Mar 1, 2015 14:21:30 GMT -5
I didn't think it was convoluted at all. ............ The simple fact is that you disagree with me. That's all there is. That evolved into a story about how I may be tying Gopal up in knots by giving him an anchor instead of a rope and you tried to tell him I'm not worth the time of day but he wouldn't listen but come to think of it Gopal is really trying to save me. I call that convoluted. The reason for the story is to make me sound worthless, or even harmful, while making you sound wise and helpful. I'm just trying to help gopal out. ...........because I've been there.........
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Post by enigma on Mar 1, 2015 14:21:41 GMT -5
It's like walking through a "mindfield" around here. yeah, there's still a few minor points of contention regarding volition and separation to be sorted out... Hey, we should have discussions about that here sometime.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2015 15:28:24 GMT -5
yeah, there's still a few minor points of contention regarding volition and separation to be sorted out... Hey, we should have discussions about that here sometime. yeah, sounds good. and the folks that aren't 99% closed minded might actually hear what you're saying.
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Post by enigma on Mar 1, 2015 15:35:09 GMT -5
The simple fact is that you disagree with me. That's all there is. That evolved into a story about how I may be tying Gopal up in knots by giving him an anchor instead of a rope and you tried to tell him I'm not worth the time of day but he wouldn't listen but come to think of it Gopal is really trying to save me. I call that convoluted. The reason for the story is to make me sound worthless, or even harmful, while making you sound wise and helpful. I'm just trying to help gopal out. ...........because I've been there......... I've been paying attention to how I respond to him lately, and mostly I'm trying to keep it focused and simple cuz he has a tendency to spin, and with the language difficulty it gets 'tied up in knots', as you say, very quickly. So I don't give him all the answers to all his questions and try to parse all of his statements. Why not just leave us alone?
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Post by enigma on Mar 1, 2015 15:37:25 GMT -5
Hey, we should have discussions about that here sometime. yeah, sounds good. and the folks that aren't 99% closed minded might actually hear what you're saying. Sure, I'm always up for something different.
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Post by zin on Mar 1, 2015 16:21:12 GMT -5
Isn't it "you're welcome"? what are the extra cents? (sorry for the incapacity ) No apology necessary! ... in both Spanish and French the literal translation of "you're welcome" into English is "of nothing". All gratitude is of the void, and it is possible to recognize the void in all things. Humble much? ..It is a great poem and I didn't make much fanfare only because 1-I was in a 'looking at horizons and seriously thinking' mood, and 2-I guessed you'd say something like "awww, so sweet!" if I did so (ps. ok, you may still be right about the void thing)(ps2. a bow to all the poets here..)
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Post by zin on Mar 1, 2015 16:45:19 GMT -5
They can both be realized. how? By direct seeing? by directly seeing happy and followed by unhappy? But the problem is you can't know whether you were happy an hour ago,Isn't it?you can't know whether you were unhappy an ago,Isn't it? you can't even know whether you were on earth an hour ago,Isn't it? You might have been in Mars an hour ago, How could you know?
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Post by laughter on Mar 1, 2015 17:06:08 GMT -5
And the idea that making you confused isn't making you wrong was a major ordinance malfunction. Like stepping in one's own, saaay three times in one morning, and blaming someone else. Yeah, that's about the size of it.
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Post by laughter on Mar 1, 2015 17:12:49 GMT -5
Well the French always so charming. Mind/body/spirit ... Father/son/holy ghost ... head/heart/gut ... episteme/gnosis/the ineffable Three's a crowd and it's mob rule I tells ya'! It's easy to see how passing the buck has become such a consistent strategy, allowing the hydra-like Catholic guilt to persist ... To maintain its boundaries, mind has to imitate honesty/sincerity and believe it to be true. At some level, it has to feel awkward when faced with a pointer pointing to its falsity. Odd that it is not "easier", but I do have memories of my own hard headedness... The idea of a sincere seeker strikes me as similar in structure to a koan ... to be human is to embody the appearance of an inherent trap. The reactivity seems to me to be obviously firmly rooted in fear, and from what I've learned on the interwebs, peeps who've been at the seeking game a long time get reaaaalllly good and creative at projecting both the fear and the appearance of the trap out onto others. It also seems that their favorite canvas is someone who forms the image in their minds eye of of the lazy cheatin' dog who's claiming that it's just as easy as being themselves.
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Post by laughter on Mar 1, 2015 17:17:30 GMT -5
It's like walking through a "mindfield" around here. yeah, there's still a few minor points of contention regarding volition and separation to be sorted out... Oh! But we're so close to a resolution, once and for all and forever and everyone ... and that makes the debate worthwhile!
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Post by laughter on Mar 1, 2015 17:22:26 GMT -5
It's the " What?? game " and that's always either an act of desperation or done unconsciously. The flip side is that unconscious expressions of mind very often are so confused and involve such complex intertwining of fact and delusion that they really don't make any cents. My vote is for unconscious, in this case, mostly because the post in question was clear enough that most folks understood it and likely wonder what the problem is. Yeeeaah but when there's a sense of humor involved -- and in this case, there definitely is, I know we've disagreed on that point in the past -- ya kant ever be 100% sure. ... but the hallmark of the unconscious version is confusion and overthinking, and to hunt that wabbit one must proceed with soft footsteps so as not to announce the approach.
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Post by laughter on Mar 1, 2015 17:26:46 GMT -5
Well the French always so charming. Mind/body/spirit ... Father/son/holy ghost ... head/heart/gut ... episteme/gnosis/the ineffable Three's a crowd and it's mob rule I tells ya'! Menage a trois? Well then, the value judgement of a crowd in that case clearly depends on the details of the arrangement.
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