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Post by silver on Apr 10, 2015 16:20:44 GMT -5
There is just too much to say (about my grief / life situation) and it's wonderful if you're an actress and have all sorts of wherewithal like friends, money, status to do all sorts of wonderful things to take your mind off of your loss. Everyone's situation is different. Once I've dealt with the grief - and it's a lifetime thing - not just hey in two years or five years, I'll be 'ready to live again' - that's fantasyland. I think especially in terms of losing a young one like my son (almost 23). Totally different. The thing about the BP thread - I hadn't even gotten further than page 1, when certain parties (<3) stepped in and uh... interrupted my poetry and musings and ponderings. It was a success partly because it most definitely took my mind off of my loss - in a way. I just admired her admittance that grief can be spoken of in such a way. She doesn't speak in public much and so it hit a nerve. And personally I see it that way too. There are thousands of parents who lose their children. A friend's eldest daughter was shot dead some years back, in South Africa. She had returned to England with her other two daughters, who are beautiful mothers themselves now. You have never been alone in your experience, though I gather that there wasn't anyone in your life at the time that had had such a similar loss. Incidentally, I didn't even see or hear the bit you quoted of her -- that was worth quoting and I appreciated it. I listened to the little video/vimeo but the actresses were talking about other things in it. Tons of parents lose their children, sure, all sorts of situations, all sorts of socio-economic stratuses (strati?). I saw a youtube video a while back with an African dog mother, whose birthing was imminent, and there was a pack of hyenas who had surrounded her and trying to get at her pups who were about to be born and she was only able to sit on her butt and change positions trying to ward off the hyenas, while trying to keep her pups from being born until safe and I suppose it never did happen the way she wanted it to. I've never forgotten that and I never could. It's more poignant than any human tale that could ever be told. It says more than any human mother ever could.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 16:22:50 GMT -5
Here we go again. Instead of seeking out the thousands of parents that were able to help directly through the sharing of their own experiences. Silver came here, did she not? I suggest you stop judging something you have no personal experience with. When grief is leading the way, People go where they go, often with a sense of being pulled or guided. That's not something you nor I need to get in the way of. You make me laugh honestly. You call me callous and then tell me to stop judging.
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Post by figgles on Apr 10, 2015 16:27:07 GMT -5
I suggest you stop judging something you have no personal experience with. When grief is leading the way, People go where they go, often with a sense of being pulled or guided. That's not something you nor I need to get in the way of. You make me laugh honestly. You call me callous and then tell me to stop judging. You seriously think that telling someone to 'stop judging' is on par with telling a mom whose child has died, that "Thousands of parents have lost their children"? & fwiw, I suggested you 'stop judging' something you have no personal experience with. I may not have lost my own child, but I have enough personal experience with parents who have lost their children to understand that telling them, "Ah, lots of parents lose their kids" IS callous.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 16:41:46 GMT -5
I just admired her admittance that grief can be spoken of in such a way. She doesn't speak in public much and so it hit a nerve. And personally I see it that way too. There are thousands of parents who lose their children. A friend's eldest daughter was shot dead some years back, in South Africa. She had returned to England with her other two daughters, who are beautiful mothers themselves now. You have never been alone in your experience, though I gather that there wasn't anyone in your life at the time that had had such a similar loss. Incidentally, I didn't even see or hear the bit you quoted of her -- that was worth quoting and I appreciated it. I listened to the little video/vimeo but the actresses were talking about other things in it. Tons of parents lose their children, sure, all sorts of situations, all sorts of socio-economic stratuses (strati?). I saw a youtube video a while back with an African dog mother, whose birthing was imminent, and there was a pack of hyenas who had surrounded her and trying to get at her pups who were about to be born and she was only able to sit on her butt and change positions trying to ward off the hyenas, while trying to keep her pups from being born until safe and I suppose it never did happen the way she wanted it to. I've never forgotten that and I never could. It's more poignant than any human tale that could ever be told. It says more than any human mother ever could. Thanx. That's all I was really trying to show with the post. I recognise the energy created by grief, and I linked it for Reefs because of his thoughts here.. spiritualteachers.proboards.com/post/248220/threadSorry for not watching the video first and finding a more appropriate link to Ms Dench's words. It baffles me at times how a cameraman can film such events and not put their camera down and boot the hyenas in the head. Though if the film gave you the strength that you needed, then it was right.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 16:42:14 GMT -5
You make me laugh honestly. You call me callous and then tell me to stop judging. You seriously think that telling someone to 'stop judging' is on par with telling a mom whose child has died, that "Thousands of parents have lost their children"? & fwiw, I suggested you 'stop judging' something you have no personal experience with. I may not have lost my own child, but I have enough personal experience with parents who have lost their children to understand that telling them, "Ah, lots of parents lose their kids" IS callous. Oh shut up.
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Post by figgles on Apr 10, 2015 16:57:01 GMT -5
Incidentally, I didn't even see or hear the bit you quoted of her -- that was worth quoting and I appreciated it. I listened to the little video/vimeo but the actresses were talking about other things in it. Tons of parents lose their children, sure, all sorts of situations, all sorts of socio-economic stratuses (strati?). I saw a youtube video a while back with an African dog mother, whose birthing was imminent, and there was a pack of hyenas who had surrounded her and trying to get at her pups who were about to be born and she was only able to sit on her butt and change positions trying to ward off the hyenas, while trying to keep her pups from being born until safe and I suppose it never did happen the way she wanted it to. I've never forgotten that and I never could. It's more poignant than any human tale that could ever be told. It says more than any human mother ever could. Thanx. That's all I was really trying to show with the post. I recognise the energy created by grief, and I linked it for Reefs because of his thoughts here.. spiritualteachers.proboards.com/post/248220/threadSorry for not watching the video first and finding a more appropriate link to Ms Dench's words. It baffles me at times how a cameraman can film such events and not put their camera down and boot the hyenas in the head. Though if the film gave you the strength that you needed, then it was right. Nice to see.
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Post by figgles on Apr 10, 2015 17:16:46 GMT -5
You seriously think that telling someone to 'stop judging' is on par with telling a mom whose child has died, that "Thousands of parents have lost their children"? & fwiw, I suggested you 'stop judging' something you have no personal experience with. I may not have lost my own child, but I have enough personal experience with parents who have lost their children to understand that telling them, "Ah, lots of parents lose their kids" IS callous. Oh shut up.
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Post by laughter on Apr 10, 2015 19:42:19 GMT -5
Instead of dwaddling up a preference/attachment dichotomy and justifying it with your story, another way to go would be to recognize that imagining that the details of an individuals life situation have much of anything to do with how free they are is a form of Gangaji's exclusion trap. Not a dwad. There is in fact a huge difference between being so deeply attached to a particular manifestation of form, that I suffer for it in it's absence, and preferring a particular manifestation in form, but not needing it to be at Peace. (not suffering in it's absence). Indeed, we can say " Oneness includes everything, thus, even suffering does not occur outside of Oneness", but does that necessarily mean then that suffering must forever be an inevitable aspect of being/experiencing? if there is no importance ascribed to the difference between suffering emotionally or not, then why any sense of importance at all ascribed to 'being conscious'...or SR? You've mangled Gangaji's message badly. When she speaks of 'including' everything, she means that there is nothing, not even suffering, clinging, grasping, attachment, unconsciousness, ego, pettiness, anger, hatred, etc. that happens outside of "One." If anger, hatred, egoic need is happening, then it is not happening outside of 'what I am", no, That does not mean though that all of that must be an inevitable aspect of being/experience. The exaggerated descriptions of extreme attachments of course create a difference, and that's not a dwad no, but where you were with preference/attachment was. No, it's not me who's mangled Gangaji's message, you're the one who ignored the core of it: your imagination of what the absence of suffering is like for someone else is exactly the trap she described -- I'll leave the question of what it's like for you aside out of diplomacy. Inclusion is the way out of the trap, and hatred is about as exclusive as it gets dearie.
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Post by laughter on Apr 10, 2015 20:26:10 GMT -5
I suggest you stop judging something you have no personal experience with. When grief is leading the way, People go where they go, often with a sense of being pulled or guided. That's not something you nor I need to get in the way of. You make me laugh honestly. You call me callous and then tell me to stop judging. Yeah, lights are on, music's loud ...
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Post by figgles on Apr 10, 2015 22:34:51 GMT -5
The exaggerated descriptions of extreme attachments of course create a difference, and that's not a dwad no, but where you were with preference/attachment was. The preference vs. deeply attached was a means of also describing the difference between suffering and not. The video I posted was not specifically about "suffering." She was talking about Oneness, about the question of "what/who I am" and how some folks want to exclude certain things from that. And in the bit you're referring to, she was saying how the actual, direct experience of what is referenced by "the All, The Everything, the Nothing" defies description or imagination. She was referencing the 'ineffable' nature of what is being referenced by those terms. Hatred of another individual is absolutely included in Oneness, but if it's being experienced in any given moment, freedom is not. To hate another is to suffer. To Hate another is to essentially, deny "Self."
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2015 2:41:23 GMT -5
Thanx. That's all I was really trying to show with the post. I recognise the energy created by grief, and I linked it for Reefs because of his thoughts here.. spiritualteachers.proboards.com/post/248220/threadSorry for not watching the video first and finding a more appropriate link to Ms Dench's words. It baffles me at times how a cameraman can film such events and not put their camera down and boot the hyenas in the head. Though if the film gave you the strength that you needed, then it was right. Nice to see. Is that what I'm seeing here, you adopting what you call, another vantage point?
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Post by laughter on Apr 11, 2015 3:59:51 GMT -5
The exaggerated descriptions of extreme attachments of course create a difference, and that's not a dwad no, but where you were with preference/attachment was. The preference vs. deeply attached was a means of also describing the difference between suffering and not. The video I posted was not specifically about "suffering." She was talking about Oneness, about the question of "what/who I am" and how some folks want to exclude certain things from that. And in the bit you're referring to, she was saying how the actual, direct experience of what is referenced by "the All, The Everything, the Nothing" defies description or imagination. She was referencing the 'ineffable' nature of what is being referenced by those terms. And it was in that part that she defined the trap with the words "and that's the trap" .. with two big long pauses on either side. Hatred of another individual is absolutely included in Oneness, but if it's being experienced in any given moment, freedom is not. To hate another is to suffer. To Hate another is to essentially, deny "Self." There's no need to hyperhatemind, it's pretty obvious what's goin' on with it.
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Post by silver on Apr 11, 2015 8:30:32 GMT -5
Incidentally, I didn't even see or hear the bit you quoted of her -- that was worth quoting and I appreciated it. I listened to the little video/vimeo but the actresses were talking about other things in it. Tons of parents lose their children, sure, all sorts of situations, all sorts of socio-economic stratuses (strati?). I saw a youtube video a while back with an African dog mother, whose birthing was imminent, and there was a pack of hyenas who had surrounded her and trying to get at her pups who were about to be born and she was only able to sit on her butt and change positions trying to ward off the hyenas, while trying to keep her pups from being born until safe and I suppose it never did happen the way she wanted it to. I've never forgotten that and I never could. It's more poignant than any human tale that could ever be told. It says more than any human mother ever could. Thanx. That's all I was really trying to show with the post. I recognise the energy created by grief, and I linked it for Reefs because of his thoughts here.. spiritualteachers.proboards.com/post/248220/threadSorry for not watching the video first and finding a more appropriate link to Ms Dench's words. It baffles me at times how a cameraman can film such events and not put their camera down and boot the hyenas in the head. Though if the film gave you the strength that you needed, then it was right. Yes, I understand the sentiment about the cameramen, but have long since given up hope that they would more often see fit to do something heroic like that. They have to be really into their work to ignore the chaos and violence in the natural world, which is the only way we'd see an honest portrayal of it. I wouldn't really call it strength, but more of a moment of poignancy and commiseration -- a deep compassion for a fellow mother and her offspring, that in their own unique way never stood a chance.
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Post by figgles on Apr 11, 2015 11:23:17 GMT -5
Nice to see. Is that what I'm seeing here, you adopting what you call, another vantage point? Nope. My experience was; Same vantage point. Different content.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2015 21:13:02 GMT -5
Thanx. That's all I was really trying to show with the post. I recognise the energy created by grief, and I linked it for Reefs because of his thoughts here.. spiritualteachers.proboards.com/post/248220/threadSorry for not watching the video first and finding a more appropriate link to Ms Dench's words. It baffles me at times how a cameraman can film such events and not put their camera down and boot the hyenas in the head. Though if the film gave you the strength that you needed, then it was right. Yes, I understand the sentiment about the cameramen, but have long since given up hope that they would more often see fit to do something heroic like that. They have to be really into their work to ignore the chaos and violence in the natural world, which is the only way we'd see an honest portrayal of it. I wouldn't really call it strength, but more of a moment of poignancy and commiseration -- a deep compassion for a fellow mother and her offspring, that in their own unique way never stood a chance. I do find it a very male element, to not be able to respond, and not to scream from the core, at such fever induced violence.
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