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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 12:47:28 GMT -5
I Hate Incense A master’s handiwork cannot be measured But still priests wag their tongues explaining the “Way” and babbling about “Zen.” This old monk has never cared for false piety And my nose wrinkles at the dark smell of incense before the Buddha.
Exhausted with gay pleasures, I embrace my wife. The narrow path of asceticism is not for me: My mind runs in the opposite direction. It is easy to be glib about Zen -- I’ll just keep my mouth shut And rely on love play all the day long.
~Ikkyu
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 13:33:23 GMT -5
I Hate Incense A master’s handiwork cannot be measured But still priests wag their tongues explaining the “Way” and babbling about “Zen.” This old monk has never cared for false piety And my nose wrinkles at the dark smell of incense before the Buddha.Exhausted with gay pleasures, I embrace my wife. The narrow path of asceticism is not for me: My mind runs in the opposite direction. It is easy to be glib about Zen -- I’ll just keep my mouth shut And rely on love play all the day long. ~Ikkyu Tzu, ignore those sage words! Even though they sound like linguisting ravings that you yourself might express, it's best to stick with your own verbal happenings.
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Post by enigma on Jul 25, 2014 16:12:38 GMT -5
If I Am That and That is observable, then I Am is observable. What do you mean by "That"? I don't think you're going to get me to agree that you are That.
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Post by enigma on Jul 25, 2014 16:15:45 GMT -5
If I Am That and That is observable, then I Am is observable. If it is known, sensed, felt, experienced etc. it is observable and therefore an object. No
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Post by enigma on Jul 25, 2014 16:24:52 GMT -5
If it is known, sensed, felt, experienced etc. it is observable and therefore an object. Every thing that is observed is I'Am ..... We could say everything observed is inseparable from what you are, but 'I am' does not refer to what you are. It is not pointing at an object. It refers to a sense of existence. (Mayhaps I'm beginning to understand why Niz pulled the ax out)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 16:47:31 GMT -5
If I Am That and That is observable, then I Am is observable. What do you mean by "That"? I don't think you're going to get me to agree that you are That. Don't worry, I won't be trying. I've never understood the title of that book anyhoo. The big capitalized That as opposed to the little that. That ain't that, That is something that is neither this nor that. Absolute, nonrelative, without boundary or form.
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Post by someNOTHING! on Jul 25, 2014 17:26:04 GMT -5
Every thing that is observed is I'Am ..... We could say everything observed is inseparable from what you are, but 'I am' does not refer to what you are. It is not pointing at an object. It refers to a sense of existence. (Mayhaps I'm beginning to understand why Niz pulled the ax out) There ya go!
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Post by someNOTHING! on Jul 25, 2014 17:33:34 GMT -5
What do you mean by "That"? I don't think you're going to get me to agree that you are That. Don't worry, I won't be trying. I've never understood the title of that book anyhoo. The big capitalized That as opposed to the little that. That ain't that, That is something that is neither this nor that. Absolute, nonrelative, without boundary or form. Yeah, the capitalized stuff is just referring to that "That" which peeps are ultimately looking for. A simple distinguisher in a messy biz.
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Post by zendancer on Jul 25, 2014 18:12:42 GMT -5
We could say everything observed is inseparable from what you are, but 'I am' does not refer to what you are. It is not pointing at an object. It refers to a sense of existence. (Mayhaps I'm beginning to understand why Niz pulled the ax out) There ya go! *giggle, giggle*
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Post by justlikeyou on Jul 25, 2014 19:41:04 GMT -5
If it is known, sensed, felt, experienced etc. it is observable and therefore an object. No The Witness was clearly present prior to my first conscious wordless memory of existence. How do I know? Because I recall it. How could it be recalled if some witnessing consciousness were not there prior to the arising of sudden existence to witness it? I recall the moment in vivid detail. In the moment I suddenly Was, out of nowhere it seems, and it was observed that I suddenly Was. Beingness, Isness, AMness, in my case and as I use the words, arose up before a Witnessing Consciousness and therefore, also as I see it, is/was an Object arising within that Witnessing Consciousness. And as It has arisen as an object, it must one day disappear as all objects do. Now that's my view of it, and its perfectly OK that we disagree about it.
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Post by runstill on Jul 25, 2014 20:19:06 GMT -5
Every thing that is observed is I'Am ..... We could say everything observed is inseparable from what you are, but 'I am' does not refer to what you are. It is not pointing at an object. It refers to a sense of existence. (Mayhaps I'm beginning to understand why Niz pulled the ax out) I see it that way , the sense of me cannot be objectified and what is seen is not separate from seeing . yikes you gotta be fast to duck under that ax..
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Post by enigma on Jul 25, 2014 21:42:12 GMT -5
What do you mean by "That"? I don't think you're going to get me to agree that you are That. Don't worry, I won't be trying. I've never understood the title of that book anyhoo. The big capitalized That as opposed to the little that. That ain't that, That is something that is neither this nor that. Absolute, nonrelative, without boundary or form. Whatever is meant by That, I'm pretty sure it's not meant to be an observable object.
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Post by enigma on Jul 25, 2014 21:44:44 GMT -5
We could say everything observed is inseparable from what you are, but 'I am' does not refer to what you are. It is not pointing at an object. It refers to a sense of existence. (Mayhaps I'm beginning to understand why Niz pulled the ax out) There ya go! Have there even been any reports of him having hacked the heads off of any of his students?
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Post by enigma on Jul 25, 2014 21:45:58 GMT -5
Don't worry, I won't be trying. I've never understood the title of that book anyhoo. The big capitalized That as opposed to the little that. That ain't that, That is something that is neither this nor that. Absolute, nonrelative, without boundary or form. Yeah, the capitalized stuff is just referring to that "That" which peeps are ultimately looking for. A simple distinguisher in a messy biz. And that's the Truth.
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Post by enigma on Jul 25, 2014 22:05:28 GMT -5
We could say everything observed is inseparable from what you are, but 'I am' does not refer to what you are. It is not pointing at an object. It refers to a sense of existence. (Mayhaps I'm beginning to understand why Niz pulled the ax out) I see it that way , the sense of me cannot be objectified and what is seen is not separate from seeing . yikes you gotta be fast to duck under that ax.. Right, so Niz's "the I am" is a nonsense.
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