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Post by laughter on Jul 25, 2014 8:59:23 GMT -5
Niz: "Prior to birth where was the 'I am'? Don't contaminate the 'I am' with the body idea, I as the Absolute am not the 'I am'" "The Absolute" is as misconceived as "the I am" or "the oneness". This is what we need to take an ax to, but it's not necessary if we don't create these 'objects' to begin with. yup. No need to put down what was never picked up.
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Post by laughter on Jul 25, 2014 9:05:47 GMT -5
yeah what's the deal with axing the "I AM" or whatever? Sounds like some kind of penance or something. I was reading Niz the other day and I realised how little of it made sense to me. I like Niz, and seem to agree with pretty much all of it, but I'm not inclined to bend over backwards to make sense out of nonsense just because he was a beloved teacher. Niz weren't in the bidnez 'o makin' sense.
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Post by enigma on Jul 25, 2014 9:12:56 GMT -5
"The Absolute" is as misconceived as "the I am" or "the oneness". This is what we need to take an ax to, but it's not necessary if we don't create these 'objects' to begin with. Perhaps. Or then again, perhaps what Niz and ZD point to is beyond your current level of experience and understanding. Nothing wrong with that. People who had never been to the Ocean couldn't be expected to understand that the world was actually round. Keep an open mind is all I can say. As far as I know, ZD doesn't objectify 'I am'. He also seems to be warning against that. Do you think there is an I am? ZD and I are not disagreeing. He's trying to find a way of making sense out of Niz's comment based on the assumption that there's some sense to it, and I'm questioning it.
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Post by enigma on Jul 25, 2014 9:17:00 GMT -5
your ´´own´´ experience...as if such a thing exists..lol okay, sir, we can agree at least on one thing...: THE WORLD IS FLAT--evrybody can see that, Yes, relying on one's own experience is a guarantee of reliance on illusion. Illusion is what this experience is all about.
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Post by laughter on Jul 25, 2014 9:17:35 GMT -5
It occurred to me that one more reading of the axe quote would be to test it. Try and neti neti that sucker. Too much thinking about that which is self evident may result in illusion. That's why some folks don't know that they exist. If the hyperminding that results spins out of control then at least the other peeps exposed to that would have an indication as to where the hyperminder is ... it would seem to be an opportunity to the one caught in the illusion, but as you've pointed out before, one can't be conscious of what they're not conscious of.
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Post by enigma on Jul 25, 2014 9:22:34 GMT -5
"The Absolute" is as misconceived as "the I am" or "the oneness". This is what we need to take an ax to, but it's not necessary if we don't create these 'objects' to begin with. Then it's moot, no problem. There IS a problem if Niz convinces you there is "the Absolute" or "the I am". Then you will need to follow his advice to get rid of those ideas. Maybe.
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Post by enigma on Jul 25, 2014 9:27:41 GMT -5
"The Absolute" is as misconceived as "the I am" or "the oneness". This is what we need to take an ax to, but it's not necessary if we don't create these 'objects' to begin with. yup. No need to put down what was never picked up. Yup, yup.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 9:35:48 GMT -5
I like Niz, and seem to agree with pretty much all of it, but I'm not inclined to bend over backwards to make sense out of nonsense just because he was a beloved teacher. Niz weren't in the bidnez 'o makin' sense. At least not common sense But neither does quantum mechanics!
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Post by enigma on Jul 25, 2014 9:35:55 GMT -5
I like Niz, and seem to agree with pretty much all of it, but I'm not inclined to bend over backwards to make sense out of nonsense just because he was a beloved teacher. Niz weren't in the bidnez 'o makin' sense. He wasn't in the bidnez of talking nonsense either, which is why the comment in question is interesting.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 9:37:21 GMT -5
Then it's moot, no problem. There IS a problem if Niz convinces you there is "the Absolute" or "the I am". Then you will need to follow his advice to get rid of those ideas. Yes. And if you weren't convinced of those objects then there's no reason to unconvince you (ax) of them because its moot/not a prob.
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Post by justlikeyou on Jul 25, 2014 9:38:46 GMT -5
Do you think there is an I am? Of course. Now let me ask you this. Is the I Am observable?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 9:42:14 GMT -5
Do you think there is an I am? Of course. Now let me ask you this. Is the I Am observable? Note he's asking about an I am. He's making it a thing, like a noun, an object. As opposed to being or existing.
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Post by justlikeyou on Jul 25, 2014 9:44:52 GMT -5
Of course. Now let me ask you this. Is the I Am observable? Note he's asking about an I am. He's making it a thing, like a noun, an object. As opposed to being or existing. OK, then the question is; is I AM observable?
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Post by enigma on Jul 25, 2014 9:45:07 GMT -5
Too much thinking about that which is self evident may result in illusion. That's why some folks don't know that they exist. If the hyperminding that results spins out of control then at least the other peeps exposed to that would have an indication as to where the hyperminder is ... it would seem to be an opportunity to the one caught in the illusion, but as you've pointed out before, one can't be conscious of what they're not conscious of. Yeah, it's very difficult to recover from a hyperminding state as one believes one's own conclusions to be valid and there's no incentive to look prior to those conclusions but only post conclusion; to explore even deeper with mind.
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Post by enigma on Jul 25, 2014 9:47:23 GMT -5
There IS a problem if Niz convinces you there is "the Absolute" or "the I am". Then you will need to follow his advice to get rid of those ideas. Yes. And if you weren't convinced of those objects then there's no reason to unconvince you (ax) of them because its moot/not a prob. Yeah.
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