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Post by laughter on Jul 25, 2014 9:47:29 GMT -5
Niz weren't in the bidnez 'o makin' sense. He wasn't in the bidnez of talking nonsense either, which is why the comment in question is interesting.
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Post by enigma on Jul 25, 2014 9:52:05 GMT -5
Do you think there is an I am? Of course. Now let me ask you this. Is the I Am observable? There is no 'I am', just as there is no oneness blob. Niz objectifies the sense 'I am', and then says you are merely the witness to this object. If he had not objectified the sense, he would not have to help his listeners solve the problem of objectification.
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Post by justlikeyou on Jul 25, 2014 9:53:30 GMT -5
Of course. Now let me ask you this. Is the I Am observable? There is no 'I am', just as there is no oneness blob. Niz objectifies the sense 'I am', and then says you are merely the witness to this object. If he had not objectified the sense, he would not have to help his listeners solve the problem of objectification. You do not exist?
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Post by enigma on Jul 25, 2014 9:59:41 GMT -5
Note he's asking about an I am. He's making it a thing, like a noun, an object. As opposed to being or existing. OK, then the question is; is I AM observable? I AM does not appear.
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Post by enigma on Jul 25, 2014 10:05:58 GMT -5
There is no 'I am', just as there is no oneness blob. Niz objectifies the sense 'I am', and then says you are merely the witness to this object. If he had not objectified the sense, he would not have to help his listeners solve the problem of objectification. You do not exist? I do exist, but as the subject, not as an object. In a way, the whole game is about ceasing to look at objects and turning toward the subject that is looking. If the subject has become an object (The I am, the oneness, the absolute, the Being), you still haven't found the subject. You cannot observe the subject. You ARE the subject.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 10:06:06 GMT -5
Note he's asking about an I am. He's making it a thing, like a noun, an object. As opposed to being or existing. OK, then the question is; is I AM observable? Is That observable?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 10:08:30 GMT -5
OK, then the question is; is I AM observable? I AM does not appear. If I Am That and That is observable, then I Am is observable.
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Post by laughter on Jul 25, 2014 10:23:17 GMT -5
Niz weren't in the bidnez 'o makin' sense. At least not common sense But neither does quantum mechanics!
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Post by justlikeyou on Jul 25, 2014 10:23:23 GMT -5
If I Am That and That is observable, then I Am is observable. If it is known, sensed, felt, experienced etc. it is observable and therefore an object.
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Post by zendancer on Jul 25, 2014 10:24:00 GMT -5
Perhaps. Or then again, perhaps what Niz and ZD point to is beyond your current level of experience and understanding. Nothing wrong with that. People who had never been to the Ocean couldn't be expected to understand that the world was actually round. Keep an open mind is all I can say. As far as I know, ZD doesn't objectify 'I am'. He also seems to be warning against that. Do you think there is an I am? ZD and I are not disagreeing. He's trying to find a way of making sense out of Niz's comment based on the assumption that there's some sense to it, and I'm questioning it. Correct.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 10:44:16 GMT -5
At least not common sense But neither does quantum mechanics! Niz' favorite band.
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Post by laughter on Jul 25, 2014 11:28:25 GMT -5
If I Am That and That is observable, then I Am is observable. If it is known, sensed, felt, experienced etc. it is observable and therefore an object.
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Post by laughter on Jul 25, 2014 11:33:48 GMT -5
If the hyperminding that results spins out of control then at least the other peeps exposed to that would have an indication as to where the hyperminder is ... it would seem to be an opportunity to the one caught in the illusion, but as you've pointed out before, one can't be conscious of what they're not conscious of. Yeah, it's very difficult to recover from a hyperminding state as one believes one's own conclusions to be valid and there's no incentive to look prior to those conclusions but only post conclusion; to explore even deeper with mind. But the concluder can always cover their tracks with the positionless position! .. I mean, it's only a conclusion ... unless it isn't.
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Post by runstill on Jul 25, 2014 12:05:05 GMT -5
If I Am That and That is observable, then I Am is observable. If it is known, sensed, felt, experienced etc. it is observable and therefore an object. Every thing that is observed is I'Am .....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 12:40:09 GMT -5
If I Am That and That is observable, then I Am is observable. If it is known, sensed, felt, experienced etc. it is observable and therefore an object. Wait a second. Are you saying something is happening?
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