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Post by topology on Jul 8, 2014 10:09:47 GMT -5
Sisyphus, completely exhausted stands aside, sweat pouring scrapes and bruises burning the low thudding of the ever-immense boulder descending and begins the descent again noticing the cool air on his brow "We must imagine Sisyphus happy" -Albert Camus I suppose we imagine Sisyphus as miserable because we project our own sense of misery into the story. But I don't think imagining Sisyphus as happy actually address our own sense of misery in pushing our own boulders up the hillside. The mental/emotional suffering only comes in from the desire to be somewhere else and not being able to act on that desire. If the desire can't be fulfilled, then its only resolution is to evaporate and bleed off. Its a question of willingness to let go of the desire to be somewhere else. A willingness to let go of wanting things to be other than how they arise. After the mind's tantrum and attempt at rebelling against its fate, with acceptance comes curiosity. The boulder and hillside becomes a microcosm for life's exploration and experimentation. Thankfully there is enough variety in day to day living to keep the mind entertained and distracted. Sisyphus would probably resort to noticing how each time the boulder fell that it would fall in a different way, impact the landscape differently. The man must have an awesome intuition for predicting the path the boulder would take.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 10:14:00 GMT -5
Sisyphus, completely exhausted stands aside, sweat pouring scrapes and bruises burning the low thudding of the ever-immense boulder descending and begins the descent again noticing the cool air on his brow "We must imagine Sisyphus happy" -Albert Camus Yes, that concept, and that suicide is the ultimate existential question, can help lighten the load.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 10:33:17 GMT -5
Sisyphus, completely exhausted stands aside, sweat pouring scrapes and bruises burning the low thudding of the ever-immense boulder descending and begins the descent again noticing the cool air on his brow "We must imagine Sisyphus happy" -Albert Camus his punishment was for chronic deceitfulness...what is the cost of deceitfulness?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 10:47:54 GMT -5
"We must imagine Sisyphus happy" -Albert Camus his punishment was for chronic deceitfulness...what is the cost of deceitfulness? I thought he was just caught partying with a god's daughter? edit: err "The maddening nature of the punishment was reserved for King Sisyphus due to his hubristic belief that his cleverness surpassed that of Zeus himself. " Turns out the gods don't like it when mortals outsmart an immortal. Happens around here all the time!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 11:06:54 GMT -5
his punishment was for chronic deceitfulness...what is the cost of deceitfulness? I thought he was just caught partying with a god's daughter? dunno, wiki says he was a liar, and apparently the gods got fed up with that nonsense me too, actually
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 11:08:40 GMT -5
I thought he was just caught partying with a god's daughter? dunno, wiki says he was a liar, and apparently the gods got fed up with that nonsense me too, actually He gave Hades the slip. He was deceitful to the gods (who were going to kill him or something dreadful). Who can blame a guy for making a last ditch effort?
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Post by charliegee on Jul 8, 2014 14:58:52 GMT -5
they were not attempts though they started out to be .. they were more intents (and intense) desires to escape from pain, mostly brought on by some habits and predilections that were less than life affirming .. I accept my life more at this juncture and cannot envision getting to that point again ..
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Post by enigma on Jul 8, 2014 18:13:31 GMT -5
"We must imagine Sisyphus happy" -Albert Camus Yes, that concept, and that suicide is the ultimate existential question, can help lighten the load. I agree with Top in that a compensating attitude (imagining happiness to counter unhappiness) doesn't work. As long as there is engagement with one of the polarities, there is involvement with both. Strangely, the goal is not to be happy in the usual sense, but to 'not mind'. (walking off the battlefield)
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Post by enigma on Jul 8, 2014 18:16:01 GMT -5
"We must imagine Sisyphus happy" -Albert Camus his punishment was for chronic deceitfulness...what is the cost of deceitfulness? Deceit happens because there are various benefits to the one deceiving, and sometimes even to the one deceived.
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Post by enigma on Jul 8, 2014 18:18:43 GMT -5
his punishment was for chronic deceitfulness...what is the cost of deceitfulness? I thought he was just caught partying with a god's daughter? edit: err "The maddening nature of the punishment was reserved for King Sisyphus due to his hubristic belief that his cleverness surpassed that of Zeus himself. " Turns out the gods don't like it when mortals outsmart an immortal. Happens around here all the time! Maybe instead of banings, we should assign boulder duty?
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Post by laughter on Jul 8, 2014 20:08:47 GMT -5
I thought he was just caught partying with a god's daughter? edit: err "The maddening nature of the punishment was reserved for King Sisyphus due to his hubristic belief that his cleverness surpassed that of Zeus himself. " Turns out the gods don't like it when mortals outsmart an immortal. Happens around here all the time! Maybe instead of banings, we should assign boulder duty? Seems like we got no shortage for the all volunteer force! (** glances nervously at flaming candle **)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 4:33:10 GMT -5
the first time for me Charley (many years ago) was due to loss of Family:Having all ones eggs in one basket can be disasterous for young men starting-out, but being a sensitive person as well as a detail draughtsman I took it upon myself to realize how it could be done without upsetting anyone, nor make others clean-up after me. Fortunately the realization of the way revealed new life inside me;there was no-need to act-it-out.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 4:50:06 GMT -5
they were not attempts though they started out to be .. they were more intents (and intense) desires to escape from pain, mostly brought on by some habits and predilections that were less than life affirming .. I accept my life more at this juncture and cannot envision getting to that point again .. Neither did I Charley, yet life takes strange twists and turns. Learning to deal with pain is very helpful and keeps one free of getting attached to thought.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 9:17:33 GMT -5
Yes, that concept, and that suicide is the ultimate existential question, can help lighten the load. I agree with Top in that a compensating attitude (imagining happiness to counter unhappiness) doesn't work. As long as there is engagement with one of the polarities, there is involvement with both. Strangely, the goal is not to be happy in the usual sense, but to 'not mind'. (walking off the battlefield) The way I understand Camus' use of "imagine" and "happy" is different. My understanding is that his underscoring of the Sisyphus myth was to highlight the question of suicide. Is it better to live, with all of it's slings and arrows and boulders, or to die? Sisyphus provides an example of someone who chose the former. It is a fundamental question and is first cousins, in my opinion, to Do you exist? and Who/what am I? Alternatively, who/what suffers? The polarity is questioned. Why would someone choose to live under such horrible circumstances? Imagining Sisyphus happy is a way of saying that he walked off the battlefield. The battlefield of rolling the boulder up the hill ceaselessly, forever, is not where he is. It is happening but he is simply happy in being.
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Post by enigma on Jul 9, 2014 10:49:43 GMT -5
I agree with Top in that a compensating attitude (imagining happiness to counter unhappiness) doesn't work. As long as there is engagement with one of the polarities, there is involvement with both. Strangely, the goal is not to be happy in the usual sense, but to 'not mind'. (walking off the battlefield) The way I understand Camus' use of "imagine" and "happy" is different. My understanding is that his underscoring of the Sisyphus myth was to highlight the question of suicide. Is it better to live, with all of it's slings and arrows and boulders, or to die? Sisyphus provides an example of someone who chose the former. It is a fundamental question and is first cousins, in my opinion, to Do you exist? and Who/what am I? Alternatively, who/what suffers? The polarity is questioned. Why would someone choose to live under such horrible circumstances? Imagining Sisyphus happy is a way of saying that he walked off the battlefield. The battlefield of rolling the boulder up the hill ceaselessly, forever, is not where he is. It is happening but he is simply happy in being. Okay. I really have no idea what Camus may have meant by his comment.
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