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Post by lolly on Nov 26, 2013 5:34:20 GMT -5
“ When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.” So, that's my pondering on what underpins malevolence... or evil as we call it. So now turn this around ... "when you see an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent." IOW -- when you see malevolence, you are being violent. One way to express this as one of those ideas that has no resolution by thought is to say that absolute acceptance includes the potential to encounter the unacceptable. In total surrender, we surrender to the fact of the battle. The question is, do we see the battle for what it is? In terms of PIAD we drop the notion of the battle or the relevance of the paradox. In putting it out front, we see the battle for what it is. I'm sure I see a lot of violence without acting violently myself, though there are occasions where a fight is needed, in defense situations. I'm not sure about the surrender to the fact of battle, but I do see battle is a fact. Personally, I pretty much agree with the Nhat Hanh and Krishnamurti versions, even though they are quite different view points.
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Post by lolly on Nov 26, 2013 6:16:52 GMT -5
I classify myself as high spin thinker, and find no fault in it. It's actually an attribute. In spiritualteacherdom, there are bound to be statements about what you 'really are'. It's the basis of teacherdom, actually. As true as one person's insight may or may not be, there is no 'really' beyond the realization of any individual, and what's true as it pertains to me is irrelevant to other people. In my retreats, there is a thought process that unravels and plays out merry scenarios. Many people have been told that this must stop, I was told that myself, but I ignored it, and in my personal inner view I found that a thought shouldn't be hindered because that merely creates conflict within the mind. In lengthy meditation retreats I noticed that a thought will play out for a while until it becomes uninteresting and the attention would move off into some other area, and at times a silence would occur for long periods of time, until that is, another stream of thought would capture my interest. The basic meditation training was to remain aware of breath by feeling its sensation in the nostrils, and people find that in a minute or so they drift off with the fairies, but with practice the attention can be retained for longer and longer periods. The Buddhists call the wandering mind 'monkey mind' because it leaps from this to that grasping from tree to tree and so on. The simple act of observing, be that the breath or a candle or whatever it may be, is a good way to quieten down the mind's chatter, but the key, I find, is not to demean the mind by thinking of it as a wild animal or something... it's better to form a cooperative partnership with it. The mind actually wants something to do and shouldn't be smothered. It's better to give the mind something to do, then the mind is happy because it has a job to do, and you're happy because the mind is doing what you want it to do. Great tips on technique there. As the thoughts arise, witness them without either assigning or refraining from assigning any truth or falsity to them. Witness the interest that might arise in some facet of the thought in the same way and be cognizant that this is the mechanism of a train of thought: one thought forming the basis for the next. It is in the train of thought that attention is lost. I'm not to sure of things and could only speak for myself, because I don't exactly follow the technique that is taught at the ashram, but I still meditate like a friggin monk Lol. The difference is, I tend not to believe the Buddhist paradigm that underpins the motivation to meditate, which is, the final goal of enlightenment. In my case, I only want to see what is there, and that's where the Buddhist notion of 'as it is' appeals to me, so I don't visualise chant or contemplate on I... or anything... I merely be there and see what happens. The breath observation is OK too... and alot of my practice is nothing to do with thoughts and the mind, much of it is just a physical presence. I mean, If you sit there with eyes closed, awareness of 'as it is' is what can be felt, and anything mental or emotional also makes some change in the body as well. Often times, keeping awareness in the body leads me to something which is stuck or even an old trauma of some kind, (this first occurs as pain), and when it happens, it unravels as a long train of thought which plays scenarios and keeps unfolding until it passes and no longer has a place withing the physio/psychic system... and the storm is over and calm is the night. I find these processes very important. It helps me to become a more efficient channel of purity and love, and I can bring that out and express in in my life, which enhances the happiness of everyone who encounters me (believe it or not).
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Post by tzujanli on Nov 26, 2013 6:54:06 GMT -5
Greetings.. Great tips on technique there. As the thoughts arise, witness them without either assigning or refraining from assigning any truth or falsity to them. Witness the interest that might arise in some facet of the thought in the same way and be cognizant that this is the mechanism of a train of thought: one thought forming the basis for the next. It is in the train of thought that attention is lost. I'm not to sure of things and could only speak for myself, because I don't exactly follow the technique that is taught at the ashram, but I still meditate like a friggin monk Lol. The difference is, I tend not to believe the Buddhist paradigm that underpins the motivation to meditate, which is, the final goal of enlightenment. In my case, I only want to see what is there, and that's where the Buddhist notion of 'as it is' appeals to me, so I don't visualise chant or contemplate on I... or anything... I merely be there and see what happens. The breath observation is OK too... and alot of my practice is nothing to do with thoughts and the mind, much of it is just a physical presence. I mean, If you sit there with eyes closed, awareness of 'as it is' is what can be felt, and anything mental or emotional also makes some change in the body as well. Often times, keeping awareness in the body leads me to something which is stuck or even an old trauma of some kind, (this first occurs as pain), and when it happens, it unravels as a long train of thought which plays scenarios and keeps unfolding until it passes and no longer has a place withing the physio/psychic system... and the storm is over and calm is the night. I find these processes very important. It helps me to become a more efficient channel of purity and love, and I can bring that out and express in in my life, which enhances the happiness of everyone who encounters me (believe it or not). Nice! Eyes closed or open, 'what is' is revealed to unattached still mind.. rather than 'wanting to see what is there', i find my self intending the illusions/distortions to dispel, what 'is there' is all that remains.. the body is the vehicle/portal through which you are currently/now aware of and experiencing what you are and what existence 'is'.. the body is not separate from the mind and neither are separate from what is real, the 'body/mind/spirit' metaphor acknowledges the inherent relationship, parts/whole, required for the 'experience of existing'.. there is the potential for becoming lost in the forest of mind/thoughts/beliefs without balanced awareness of what is actually happening.. or, as some genius noticed: 'Be still and see'.. beyond the 'seeing', when it becomes a 'what', a thing.. stillness is not present and seeing becomes believing.. when you think you know, let it go.. if it is so, it will still be there.. Be well..
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Post by laughter on Nov 26, 2013 7:03:00 GMT -5
Great tips on technique there. As the thoughts arise, witness them without either assigning or refraining from assigning any truth or falsity to them. Witness the interest that might arise in some facet of the thought in the same way and be cognizant that this is the mechanism of a train of thought: one thought forming the basis for the next. It is in the train of thought that attention is lost. I'm not to sure of things and could only speak for myself, because I don't exactly follow the technique that is taught at the ashram, but I still meditate like a friggin monk Lol. The difference is, I tend not to believe the Buddhist paradigm that underpins the motivation to meditate, which is, the final goal of enlightenment. In my case, I only want to see what is there, and that's where the Buddhist notion of 'as it is' appeals to me, so I don't visualise chant or contemplate on I... or anything... I merely be there and see what happens. The breath observation is OK too... and alot of my practice is nothing to do with thoughts and the mind, much of it is just a physical presence. I mean, If you sit there with eyes closed, awareness of 'as it is' is what can be felt, and anything mental or emotional also makes some change in the body as well. Often times, keeping awareness in the body leads me to something which is stuck or even an old trauma of some kind, (this first occurs as pain), and when it happens, it unravels as a long train of thought which plays scenarios and keeps unfolding until it passes and no longer has a place withing the physio/psychic system... and the storm is over and calm is the night. I find these processes very important. It helps me to become a more efficient channel of purity and love, and I can bring that out and express in in my life, which enhances the happiness of everyone who encounters me (believe it or not). Yes, absent thoughts, some interesting physical phenomenon arise. No reason, no purpose, no schedule, no goal.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 7:03:13 GMT -5
Greetings.. I'm not to sure of things and could only speak for myself, because I don't exactly follow the technique that is taught at the ashram, but I still meditate like a friggin monk Lol. The difference is, I tend not to believe the Buddhist paradigm that underpins the motivation to meditate, which is, the final goal of enlightenment. In my case, I only want to see what is there, and that's where the Buddhist notion of 'as it is' appeals to me, so I don't visualise chant or contemplate on I... or anything... I merely be there and see what happens. The breath observation is OK too... and alot of my practice is nothing to do with thoughts and the mind, much of it is just a physical presence. I mean, If you sit there with eyes closed, awareness of 'as it is' is what can be felt, and anything mental or emotional also makes some change in the body as well. Often times, keeping awareness in the body leads me to something which is stuck or even an old trauma of some kind, (this first occurs as pain), and when it happens, it unravels as a long train of thought which plays scenarios and keeps unfolding until it passes and no longer has a place withing the physio/psychic system... and the storm is over and calm is the night. I find these processes very important. It helps me to become a more efficient channel of purity and love, and I can bring that out and express in in my life, which enhances the happiness of everyone who encounters me (believe it or not). Nice! Eyes closed or open, 'what is' is revealed to unattached still mind.. rather than 'wanting to see what is there', i find my self intending the illusions/distortions to dispel, what 'is there' is all that remains.. the body is the vehicle/portal through which you are currently/now aware of and experiencing what you are and what existence 'is'.. the body is not separate from the mind and neither are separate from what is real, the 'body/mind/spirit' metaphor acknowledges the inherent relationship, parts/whole, required for the 'experience of existing'.. there is the potential for becoming lost in the forest of mind/thoughts/beliefs without balanced awareness of what is actually happening.. or, as some genius noticed: 'Be still and see'.. beyond the 'seeing', when it becomes a 'what', a thing.. stillness is not present and seeing becomes believing.. when you think you know, let it go.. if it is so, it will still be there.. Be well.. Excellent posts.
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Post by andrew on Nov 26, 2013 7:04:47 GMT -5
The subject of prayer came up earlier. In my experience, prayer can be powerfully affective, but there is a technique, there are principles. Gratitude is crucial, as is faith/belief. The prayer also has be meaningful and resonant with the heart. People pray to win the lottery but the prayer has no affect because people don't really want to win the lottery in their heart, what they really want is freedom. Plus, people pray for the lottery without gratitude and without faith and without even specificity. So even if they do pray to win the lottery with gratitude they might win 5 dollars a year later. In their hearts, I don't think many people are comfortable with having inordinate amounts of money (which I definitely don't see as a bad thing) and that is reflected back at us.
I feel I have had prayers answered, but often the way that events play themselves out in order to meet the prayer are unexpected, uncomfortable and...not preferable on the surface. I am careful with prayer for that reason.
A prayer for peace always good though.
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Post by tzujanli on Nov 26, 2013 7:25:49 GMT -5
Greetings.. The subject of prayer came up earlier. In my experience, prayer can be powerfully affective, but there is a technique, there are principles. Gratitude is crucial, as is faith/belief. The prayer also has be meaningful and resonant with the heart. People pray to win the lottery but the prayer has no affect because people don't really want to win the lottery in their heart, what they really want is freedom. Plus, people pray for the lottery without gratitude and without faith and without even specificity. So even if they do pray to win the lottery with gratitude they might win 5 dollars a year later. In their hearts, I don't think many people are comfortable with having inordinate amounts of money (which I definitely don't see as a bad thing) and that is reflected back at us. I feel I have had prayers answered, but often the way that events play themselves out in order to meet the prayer are unexpected, uncomfortable and...not preferable on the surface. I am careful with prayer for that reason. A prayer for peace always good though. I appreciate your intention, Andrew.. rather than drag the baggage of 'prayer' into the process, i 'intend' peace, no deity/belief involved.. Be well..
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Post by andrew on Nov 26, 2013 7:36:40 GMT -5
Greetings.. The subject of prayer came up earlier. In my experience, prayer can be powerfully affective, but there is a technique, there are principles. Gratitude is crucial, as is faith/belief. The prayer also has be meaningful and resonant with the heart. People pray to win the lottery but the prayer has no affect because people don't really want to win the lottery in their heart, what they really want is freedom. Plus, people pray for the lottery without gratitude and without faith and without even specificity. So even if they do pray to win the lottery with gratitude they might win 5 dollars a year later. In their hearts, I don't think many people are comfortable with having inordinate amounts of money (which I definitely don't see as a bad thing) and that is reflected back at us. I feel I have had prayers answered, but often the way that events play themselves out in order to meet the prayer are unexpected, uncomfortable and...not preferable on the surface. I am careful with prayer for that reason. A prayer for peace always good though. I appreciate your intention, Andrew.. rather than drag the baggage of 'prayer' into the process, i 'intend' peace, no deity/belief involved.. Be well.. I understand and can relate to that 'intention'. I would say the word 'prayer' has a lot of religious connotation/association/baggage which isn't always helpful, nevertheless I see the process as potentially effective and doesn't have to involve a deity, it just requires faith in something bigger than us, we could call it 'the force', or just 'the universe', or even just 'life' I guess (and I understand we are not separate from those things). If your intention gets results, I am all for it. I am not 'religious' minded as such, I just like to look at what gets results...whether its 'intending' or 'prayer'.
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Post by laughter on Nov 26, 2013 7:36:50 GMT -5
A prayer for peace always good though. Sometimes I'll find myself praying ... a sort of urge will come over mixed with a sense of gratitude. Most often these days while I'm meditating. From awhile back I always end the prayer ".. to whatever is". Might as well start out with "Dear God" ... what's the harm? ... Just a word after all. The idea of praying for something material just never made any sense to me.
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Post by andrew on Nov 26, 2013 7:37:38 GMT -5
A prayer for peace always good though. Sometimes I'll find myself praying ... a sort of urge will come over mixed with a sense of gratitude. Most often these days while I'm meditating. From awhile back I always end the prayer ".. to whatever is". Might as well start out with "Dear God" ... what's the harm? ... Just a word after all. The idea of praying for something material just never made any sense to me. Can definitely relate to that.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 7:53:04 GMT -5
Bliss be my guide
Om
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Post by lolly on Nov 26, 2013 8:31:01 GMT -5
In regards to prayer, again I can only speak from my influence in Buddhist Metta meditation. 'The loving kindness' I think is the translation. This is founded on the sincere wish that all life forms will be happy. That is a very clear intention. Whereas the main body of meditation is 'as it is', devoid of any volitional influence, Metta is intended and volitionally affects the vibes, like instead of simply feeling whats there, imbue that with purely intended good will and love and kindness, and sure, make a verbal prayer that everything will be at peace and feel true happiness.
I think the best strategy is to first bring the Metta into the body, and I personally do that through the crown of my head... and I feel it fer reals right through my own body, and I radiate that frequency outward into the surrounding environment, so the good vibes spread into the walls of the room, and then outward outward outward...
I can't do that unless I have a deep seated and sincere wish at the time... but when the intention is wholesomely pure, it's an awesome meditation
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 8:44:14 GMT -5
Thugs look for victims. They look for telltale signs that the target won't fight back. If someone projects fear and submission they're more likely to attract attacks. And if they project fight they're less likely to be attacked. Model Muggers -- trainings for women to oppose violent attack primarily teaches how to project that image. The actual physical fighting skills support the image. But the first thing they teach is being able to look the attacker in the eyes as they approach and firmly shout 'NO' or something. my guess is that those dudes somehow associated that feeling with images in their own head. But whatev just an idea. Actually if someone projects fight they'll just attract a different type of attacker, but that's in a much wider context. Yes you're right. For example, men who project a willingness to fight are probably much more likely to get into a fight.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 9:15:16 GMT -5
CAMPBELL: “I will participate in the game. It is a wonderful, wonderful opera – except that it hurts.” amen to that
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Post by silence on Nov 26, 2013 17:41:54 GMT -5
Interesting. Enlightenment is a totally meaningless term to me. I don't use it, don't think about it and don't talk about it unless others are bringing it up. You use different words. Other than that you're playing the same perverted game like every other spiritual teacher. If you say so.
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