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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 25, 2013 17:25:04 GMT -5
You're a fool if you still believe that there is any use to these practises. They don't work and never have. These spiritual teachers are all driven purely by ego, they know that their methods don't work. I have been on this forum 4-5 years. In all those years nobody has become enlightened here. Isn't that strange? All it comes down to is talent, i.e. you need to have the right genes and maybe you can have some success. I have already mentioned Mike Snyder's son, who became suddenly enlightened just by hearing his father talking about it on the phone. The boy never practised a thing, still got enlightened. You need the right genes, if you don't then bad luck for you, buddy. How do you know nothing works? Have you tried any practices? Steve says one has to go at it like your training for the Olympics. I starting to believe that. Yes I tried. Even so hard like going to olmpic. It was all a waste of time.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 25, 2013 17:26:12 GMT -5
JB has a point there. If there are all powerful benevolent deities, why wouldn't they bestow everlasting bliss right now and not at some time in the future. Why allow suffering, even the most minute? 1. It's a screwy model 2. benevolent deities are fantasy 3. the deities are not benevolent, rather malevolent Because they don't interfere with what people want. If almost everyone wants evil they allow them that. It's one of the ways they love by allowing. I prayed to god and angels thousand times. waste of time. he never help me.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2013 17:26:58 GMT -5
No comprendo. As far as I can tell, there are a lot of peeps that believe in benevolent deities. Of that population, fewer believe in the malevolent kind. Just like there's a large population that believes in Heaven after death and, of the same population, fewer believe in a Hell. Makes no sense to me. But I was raised agnostic so it's never been something I've had to grapple with. I don't know what you're talking about with resepct to psychology and brains. ?? Oh. I mean there are no angels/devils. It sure is easy to imagine them. We are be-deviled by seemingly crazy problems. Yet sometimes wonderful things happen out of nowhere. We grasp at explanations and voila, angels and devils get conjured up in our psyches. I think we 'like' to believe in them, but that becomes problematic, even though I myself don't wanna stop believing in angels, I figure if they're real, then devils are real, too. *shrug* Well that phenomena doesn't have to be mystical in anyway. You see it all the time, someone picking their loved one out of the rubble -- they've been stuck for 5 days, drinking their own urine to survive and everyone expounds on the great luck of the survivor. Haha! As you say, it's probably just some survival wiring mechanism. -- Make sense of mayhem by looking for some kind of silver lining. Individuals like JB who doom and gloomed everything probably had a harder time finding a mate.
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Post by silver on Nov 25, 2013 17:31:22 GMT -5
Oh. I mean there are no angels/devils. It sure is easy to imagine them. We are be-deviled by seemingly crazy problems. Yet sometimes wonderful things happen out of nowhere. We grasp at explanations and voila, angels and devils get conjured up in our psyches. I think we 'like' to believe in them, but that becomes problematic, even though I myself don't wanna stop believing in angels, I figure if they're real, then devils are real, too. *shrug* Well that phenomena doesn't have to be mystical in anyway. You see it all the time, someone picking their loved one out of the rubble -- they've been stuck for 5 days, drinking their own urine to survive and everyone expounds on the great luck of the survivor. Haha! As you say, it's probably just some survival wiring mechanism. -- Make sense of mayhem by looking for some kind of silver lining. Individuals like JB who doom and gloomed everything probably had a harder time finding a mate. The one true story I heard on tv a long time ago gives me pause -- makes me wonder about what is the real answer and that is a woman walking alone in a rough neighborhood but she had to -- couple of guys hanging out that were planning on robbing her, and whatever were caught and arrested later for doing it to the next person that came their way -- when asked by authorities why they didn't attack her, they said because there were two big guys walking on either side of her - that weren't there. Did they imagine it for some reason or what? I believe this story, but how to explain it...
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Post by earnest on Nov 25, 2013 17:35:38 GMT -5
JB has a point there. If there are all powerful benevolent deities, why wouldn't they bestow everlasting bliss right now and not at some time in the future. Why allow suffering, even the most minute? 1. It's a screwy model 2. benevolent deities are fantasy 3. the deities are not benevolent, rather malevolent How would you know if a benevolent deity giving you a bliss job was actually the right thing to be happening? Just because it felt good? I can't be certain of that anymore. This reminds me of the Power of Myth tv show where Bill Moyers interviews Joseph Campbell. In particular the part where they talk about the experience of the sublime. CAMPBELL: What we call monsters can be experienced as sublime. They represent powers too vast for the normal forms of life to contain them. An immense expanse of space is sublime. The Buddhists know how to achieve this effect in situating their temples, which are often up on high hills. For example, some of the temple gardens in Japan are designed so that you will first be experiencing close-in, intimate arrangements Meanwhile, you’re climbing, until suddenly you break past a screen and an expanse of horizon opens out, and somehow, with this diminishment of your own ego, your consciousness expands to an experience of the sublime. Another mode of the sublime is of prodigious energy, force, and power. I’ve known a number of people who were in Central Europe during the Anglo-American saturation bombings of their cities – and several have described this inhuman experience as not only terrible but in a measure sublime. Moyers: I once interviewed a veteran of the Second World War. I talked to him about his experience at the Battle of the Bulge, in that bitter winter when the surprise German assault was about to succeed. I said, “As you look back on it, what was it?” And he said, “It was sublime.” CAMPBELL: And so the monster comes through as a kind of god. Moyers: And by monster you mean - CAMPBELL: By a monster I mean some horrendous presence or apparition that explodes all of your standards for harmony, order, and ethical conduct. For example, Vishnu at the end of the world appears as a monster… …there is a Muslim saying about the Angel of Death: “When the Angel of Death approaches, he is terrible. When he reaches you, it is bliss.” In Buddhist systems, more especially those of Tibet, the meditation Buddhas appear in two aspects, one peaceful and the other wrathful. If you are clinging fiercely to your ego and its little temporal world of sorrows and joys, hanging on for dear life, it will be the wrathful aspect of the deity that appears. It will seem terrifying. But the moment your ego yields, and gives up, that same mediation Buddha is experienced as a bestower of bliss.
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Post by silence on Nov 25, 2013 17:36:17 GMT -5
Dude, you just need to get your life together. It has nothing to do with enlightenment. God is the All of Everything, the good and bad, yin and yang, light and darkness. God doesn't care one way or another. But there are energies like angels that help us. Angels can appear as anything, a drug addict in an alley, a drunk man, a priest, just anything that is a person needs. They can come with IDs, backgrounds, records, birth certificates whatever. You can't detect them. They are higher than the Astro World. They are not confined to the earth bubble. When I am aligned or prepared properly they will give me understanding and direction in what the Highest thing I can do. If I go out and try to do my own thing I'll meet with failure. When the time is right a way will be made known. And at that time things will happen for the good of all not just for me. It might take more than this lifetime if such things are real. The evil engeries know and I have to face them and their evil intentions and temptations. They sometimes are like wolfs in sheep's clothing so one has to be very careful. And sometimes they do trick me but I keep learning the devils tricks and get stronger. So I don't know what I should do but wait. Wait all you want. Nobody is coming to save you. Not God and not any angels. You either address the basic quality of life issues you face or you don't.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2013 17:37:11 GMT -5
Well that phenomena doesn't have to be mystical in anyway. You see it all the time, someone picking their loved one out of the rubble -- they've been stuck for 5 days, drinking their own urine to survive and everyone expounds on the great luck of the survivor. Haha! As you say, it's probably just some survival wiring mechanism. -- Make sense of mayhem by looking for some kind of silver lining. Individuals like JB who doom and gloomed everything probably had a harder time finding a mate. The one true story I heard on tv a long time ago gives me pause -- makes me wonder about what is the real answer and that is a woman walking alone in a rough neighborhood but she had to -- couple of guys hanging out that were planning on robbing her, and whatever were caught and arrested later for doing it to the next person that came their way -- when asked by authorities why they didn't attack her, they said because there were two big guys walking on either side of her - that weren't there. Did they imagine it for some reason or what? I believe this story, but how to explain it... Thugs look for victims. They look for telltale signs that the target won't fight back. If someone projects fear and submission they're more likely to attract attacks. And if they project fight they're less likely to be attacked. Model Muggers -- trainings for women to oppose violent attack primarily teaches how to project that image. The actual physical fighting skills support the image. But the first thing they teach is being able to look the attacker in the eyes as they approach and firmly shout 'NO' or something. my guess is that those dudes somehow associated that feeling with images in their own head. But whatev just an idea.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2013 17:40:25 GMT -5
Obviously it isn't obvious, it's the fundamental misconception of so called non-dual teachers, that there is a separate me that has choice, freewill and volition... You are affirming an 'I' (subject) that LOOKS at where the words are POINTING(object). You are affirming an ILLUSION. There is just Wholeness and Wholeness doesn't see objects... There is NOBODY LOOKING... There is NOBODY typing this post and NOBODY reading it... There is however WHAT IS HAPPENING, but it isn't HAPPENING TO A SOMEBODY... TRF: After all these years, do you honestly think that your point is not crystal clear to most of us? FWIW, getting attached to the idea of wholeness is just as silly and one-sided as getting attached to the idea of separateness. PIAD means letting go of ALL ideas, even the idea of wholeness. It just shows that after all these years you still don't get that there is no separate person who can Let Go of anything. Getting attached to Wholeness or Clarity or Attending is all part of the dream of the Me that can do those things... You still believe there is an attender to the actual, or someone who can become crystal clear...I'm saying that is an illusion, there is no separate doer, there is just Wholeness. I'm talking about the possibility of the sense of the one who is crystal clear can simply vanish, leaving THIS... There actually already is only What's Happening, but it is a nonsense to think there's a separate Me or a You that it is Happening too... That is Duality and that is an Illusion.
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Post by silence on Nov 25, 2013 17:42:21 GMT -5
I actually don't have a problem with that. Don't lie to me. You play the same perverted game, like all of the spiritual teachers. You do the "I'm just a regular guy" routine, but of course you don't think you are. You think that you're enlightened and I'm not, and then you give me advice about how to get enlightened. I know for a fact that you're not enlightened. You're a fraud with a miserable life who needs attention and approval from the interwebs to get through the day. Interesting. Enlightenment is a totally meaningless term to me. I don't use it, don't think about it and don't talk about it unless others are bringing it up.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 25, 2013 17:50:46 GMT -5
I think it was Jed Mckenna's second book where he goes to CA to a dinner party hosted by a friend. Jed unleashes a spiritually incorrect rant there making the new age community a bit uncomfortable. I always imagined that the party included or was hosted by Ken Wilbur and his talk about the community that was forming was his Integral blah blah. Jed said something like the host had more intelligence in the tip of his nose than Jed ever could hope for...something like that. I've read a bit of KW and he does exude rocket science philosophy. There's something very shallow there too-- even his feats of mind control (like in the video) seem like parlor tricks (cool ones). When I've heard him interview others he pretty much seems to do all the talking. It's annoying. But this is the first I've heard that he's also a sex symbol. Is this his own estimation or that of JB's only? Wilbur is an idiot. He isn't an expert at anything, he never invented anything. All he does is he takes ideas from other people, and he misunderstands most of them, then he jumbles them together and voila he has his integral model. It looks nice to the housewife or to the stoned teenager, but if you're an expert then you're shocked at the poor quality. I read Wilbur a lot like 10 years ago. I though like wtf, everyone says he is good, but I see all the mistakes he makes, am I an idiot or is he the idiot and everyone else is just sheep? If you pay me enough money then I will completely destroy his entire oevre quickly. Profesisonal philosophers would do that, but it's not worth it, he is a nobody, not worth the time, only if someone pays them would they spend time on him. Yes obviously he is very atractive. Look at the guy. At least he was, now he is getting a bit old. Only in the past did solid philosophy come out of spirituality. Now they are jokes. Problems today are too complex, but the contemporary spiritual philosophy tries to make everything simple and say like "oh look all the high falluting experts they all idiots, just look within and all problem go away, everything one blah blah", they don't understand wtf they are talking about.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 25, 2013 17:51:37 GMT -5
I prayed to god and angels thousand times. waste of time. he never help me. Helped you what? For exampe right now I ask god please give me a million dollar. And where is my million dollar? Nothing.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 25, 2013 17:57:53 GMT -5
Well that phenomena doesn't have to be mystical in anyway. You see it all the time, someone picking their loved one out of the rubble -- they've been stuck for 5 days, drinking their own urine to survive and everyone expounds on the great luck of the survivor. Haha! As you say, it's probably just some survival wiring mechanism. -- Make sense of mayhem by looking for some kind of silver lining. Individuals like JB who doom and gloomed everything probably had a harder time finding a mate. The one true story I heard on tv a long time ago gives me pause -- makes me wonder about what is the real answer and that is a woman walking alone in a rough neighborhood but she had to -- couple of guys hanging out that were planning on robbing her, and whatever were caught and arrested later for doing it to the next person that came their way -- when asked by authorities why they didn't attack her, they said because there were two big guys walking on either side of her - that weren't there. Did they imagine it for some reason or what? I believe this story, but how to explain it... Who say they weren't there? Or maybe one of them saw something suspicions, a shadow or whatever, and told the other. Who knows, there a million explanations. Also don't only think of this one instance. Think of all the other. Think of the indian rape case that made the news all over the world. Think of what they do in africa. I read today a 14 y/o girl in africa got raped by 3 guys. She go to plice, they laugh at her and tell her to clean the floor in police station and then send her home. This world is evil evil evil.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 25, 2013 18:02:30 GMT -5
Don't lie to me. You play the same perverted game, like all of the spiritual teachers. You do the "I'm just a regular guy" routine, but of course you don't think you are. You think that you're enlightened and I'm not, and then you give me advice about how to get enlightened. I know for a fact that you're not enlightened. You're a fraud with a miserable life who needs attention and approval from the interwebs to get through the day. Interesting. Enlightenment is a totally meaningless term to me. I don't use it, don't think about it and don't talk about it unless others are bringing it up. You use different words. Other than that you're playing the same perverted game like every other spiritual teacher.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 25, 2013 18:04:13 GMT -5
I prayed to god and angels thousand times. waste of time. he never help me. Do you get upset if you they put mustard on your sandwich when you don't like mustard? Who? Me or they put mustard? I don'T care. If I hate ustard i still mad.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 25, 2013 18:06:19 GMT -5
For exampe right now I ask god please give me a million dollar. And where is my million dollar? Nothing. Your probably on the incorrect forum and reading the wrong books. I read there is millions of dollars in the air, passing through our bodies in the forum of electronic digits. A simple mind click and it yours. I want real millon dollars. Million dollars made of paper, not electricity. Should be easy for god. No? Still no money? Does he hate me? Is it too much work for him? Is he lazy?
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