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Post by silver on Nov 25, 2013 18:16:45 GMT -5
The one true story I heard on tv a long time ago gives me pause -- makes me wonder about what is the real answer and that is a woman walking alone in a rough neighborhood but she had to -- couple of guys hanging out that were planning on robbing her, and whatever were caught and arrested later for doing it to the next person that came their way -- when asked by authorities why they didn't attack her, they said because there were two big guys walking on either side of her - that weren't there. Did they imagine it for some reason or what? I believe this story, but how to explain it... Who say they weren't there? Or maybe one of them saw something suspicions, a shadow or whatever, and told the other. Who knows, there a million explanations. Also don't only think of this one instance. Think of all the other. Think of the indian rape case that made the news all over the world. Think of what they do in africa. I read today a 14 y/o girl in africa got raped by 3 guys. She go to plice, they laugh at her and tell her to clean the floor in police station and then send her home. This world is evil evil evil. Obviously the woman said she was not accompanied by anybody. And obviously I gave a brief sketch of the whole story, so I'd say reduce that million explanations by a few thou. Of course, there's all that stuff that happens on continents I've never been to, and have no idea what real life is like there, and from what I hear I wouldnt want to find out......it just goes on and on, it seems. It makes me wonder about 'evil' sure! But, why do you seemingly preach about the evil in the world and neglect all the good that lots of people do? Don't you personally know anybody who is good? I think you mentioned your mom, but that could've been somebody else -- my mom was the most wonderful mom. Lots of other 'good' people in the world that aren't perfect, but you minimize this. The possibility exists that some random cataclysmic thingy will occur and knock out most of us, and then it will start from scratch or maybe it will obliterate us.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 25, 2013 18:43:36 GMT -5
I want real millon dollars. Million dollars made of paper, not electricity. Should be easy for god. No? Still no money? Does he hate me? Is it too much work for him? Is he lazy? Write a book since your always right, get a million dollars and get layed everyday by a different beautiful woman just wanting nothing else than to make you happy! Use her to practice your spiritual techniques like a real Olympian. Not funny. Is that what you do when someone shows that you're wrong? You start making fun of them? I hate people like you.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 25, 2013 18:52:15 GMT -5
Who say they weren't there? Or maybe one of them saw something suspicions, a shadow or whatever, and told the other. Who knows, there a million explanations. Also don't only think of this one instance. Think of all the other. Think of the indian rape case that made the news all over the world. Think of what they do in africa. I read today a 14 y/o girl in africa got raped by 3 guys. She go to plice, they laugh at her and tell her to clean the floor in police station and then send her home. This world is evil evil evil. Obviously the woman said she was not accompanied by anybody. And obviously I gave a brief sketch of the whole story, so I'd say reduce that million explanations by a few thou. Of course, there's all that stuff that happens on continents I've never been to, and have no idea what real life is like there, and from what I hear I wouldnt want to find out......it just goes on and on, it seems. It makes me wonder about 'evil' sure! But, why do you seemingly preach about the evil in the world and neglect all the good that lots of people do? I don't see any good in this world. They make a nice face and a pretty smile when it doesnt cost them. As soon as they have to pay or sacrifice something they turn into evil demons.Don't you personally know anybody who is good? I think you mentioned your mom, but that could've been somebody else -- my mom was the most wonderful mom. My mother is the only good person I know. Nobody else has been good to me. I don't trust anyone. Every person I have ever trusted has betrayed me. The world is a jungle. It's me against everyone else. Sounds crazy. I know. But that the plain and simple fact. The cold ugly truth.Lots of other 'good' people in the world that aren't perfect, but you minimize this. Maybe you got lucky. No good people for me.The possibility exists that some random cataclysmic thingy will occur and knock out most of us, and then it will start from scratch or maybe it will obliterate us. No idea what youre taljking about.
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Post by silver on Nov 25, 2013 19:06:33 GMT -5
Obviously the woman said she was not accompanied by anybody. And obviously I gave a brief sketch of the whole story, so I'd say reduce that million explanations by a few thou. Of course, there's all that stuff that happens on continents I've never been to, and have no idea what real life is like there, and from what I hear I wouldnt want to find out......it just goes on and on, it seems. It makes me wonder about 'evil' sure! But, why do you seemingly preach about the evil in the world and neglect all the good that lots of people do? I don't see any good in this world. They make a nice face and a pretty smile when it doesnt cost them. As soon as they have to pay or sacrifice something they turn into evil demons.Don't you personally know anybody who is good? I think you mentioned your mom, but that could've been somebody else -- my mom was the most wonderful mom. My mother is the only good person I know. Nobody else has been good to me. I don't trust anyone. Every person I have ever trusted has betrayed me. The world is a jungle. It's me against everyone else. Sounds crazy. I know. But that the plain and simple fact. The cold ugly truth.Lots of other 'good' people in the world that aren't perfect, but you minimize this. Maybe you got lucky. No good people for me.The possibility exists that some random cataclysmic thingy will occur and knock out most of us, and then it will start from scratch or maybe it will obliterate us. No idea what you're talking about.Who the heck are 'they'? I can have a lot of fun imagining all these people walking around in the world unaware that some Joe Bloe is fuming 24.7 about these evil people. Lot of them doing their best for their families and/or themselves and/or their communities, some just keeping their noses out of trouble and not bothering anyone? Does someone have to be a hero in order not to wind up on your 'evil people' list? I agree, the world is a jungle, but don't you think it's a bit much to talk about you against 'everyone' else? I didn't say I had all these 'good' people surrounding me - I just know that they're out there. The last bit about random cataclysmic is that if it happens, it will rid the world of your imagined evil people and that would be a good thing.
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Post by lolly on Nov 25, 2013 19:10:09 GMT -5
Sure. There are bad people and 'evil energies' as you call it. At the local church there's a mural which depicts the lower world through to higher heavens (where the angels are), and I think it's quite a good representation of things. The angels reach into planes of lower frequency for healing and to lift people's spirit. The energy is meant for healing or beneficial purposes, and not power. I always recall what my martial arts instructor used to say, 'Nothing stays the same. It gets better or it gets worse, and that's up to you'. Why do bad people and evil energies exist? Why can't the good once and for all defeat the bad? Only one explanation, the good is actually the bad masquarading itself to fool around with its victims, like a hunter plays with its prey. The world is an unbelievably evil place. This is what people fear more than anything, that this world is rotten to the core, that there is no escape, that god himself is utterly evil, he is the definition of evil. There isn't really a why. There's just people and things that intend harm. The nature of violence is power, like rape, for example, is a violent act where power is asserted over a victim. Look at a biker gang, stronger more powerful than the next gang, then nations, more bombs more money more power... another example, Isreal, the spawn of war, only exists as the result of violence. Moses didn't enter, and they say that God forbade it, but considering what the Slaves did once they entered the Promised Land, one could speculate that Moses was a pacifist... Shalt not Kill... and the formation of that State after WWII... till today, God rains fire from the sky. The world is ignorant of good and evil, but each person hears the little whisper of conscience, some audibly, and others can't quite make it out. Kubrick said, “The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent, but if we can come to terms with this indifference, then our existence as a species can have genuine meaning. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light.” The spiritual path is for purity and the benefit of all beings. If we look at institutions they ultimately work for the benefit of their own structures, and Krishnamurti said: “When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.” So, that's my pondering on what underpins malevolence... or evil as we call it.
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Post by lolly on Nov 25, 2013 19:18:05 GMT -5
JB has a point there. If there are all powerful benevolent deities, why wouldn't they bestow everlasting bliss right now and not at some time in the future. Why allow suffering, even the most minute? 1. It's a screwy model 2. benevolent deities are fantasy 3. the deities are not benevolent, rather malevolent Maybe there's no point, or even no possibility, of killing demons... they might simply reincarnate anyway.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 25, 2013 19:24:44 GMT -5
There isn't really a why. There's just people and things that intend harm. The nature of violence is power, like rape, for example, is a violent act where power is asserted over a victim. Look at a biker gang, stronger more powerful than the next gang, then nations, more bombs more money more power... another example, Isreal, the spawn of war, only exists as the result of violence. Moses didn't enter, and they say that God forbade it, but considering what the Slaves did once they entered the Promised Land, one could speculate that Moses was a pacifist... Shalt not Kill... and the formation of that State after WWII... till today, God rains fire from the sky. The world is ignorant of good and evil, but each person hears the little whisper of conscience, some audibly, and others can't quite make it out. Kubrick said, “The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent, but if we can come to terms with this indifference, then our existence as a species can have genuine meaning. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light.” The spiritual path is for purity and the benefit of all beings. If we look at institutions they ultimately work for the benefit of their own structures, and Krishnamurti said: “When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.” So, that's my pondering on what underpins malevolence... or evil as we call it. Indifference IS evil.
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Post by lolly on Nov 25, 2013 19:26:01 GMT -5
JB has a point there. If there are all powerful benevolent deities, why wouldn't they bestow everlasting bliss right now and not at some time in the future. Why allow suffering, even the most minute? 1. It's a screwy model 2. benevolent deities are fantasy 3. the deities are not benevolent, rather malevolent Interesting point. Woah!
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 25, 2013 19:27:40 GMT -5
Who the heck are 'they'? Everyone. You included.I can have a lot of fun imagining all these people walking around in the world unaware that some Joe Bloe is fuming 24.7 about these evil people. Lot of them doing their best for their families and/or themselves and/or their communities, some just keeping their noses out of trouble and not bothering anyone? Does someone have to be a hero in order not to wind up on your 'evil people' list? I agree, the world is a jungle, but don't you think it's a bit much to talk about you against 'everyone' else? That's the reality. I didn't say I had all these 'good' people surrounding me - I just know that they're out there. No, they aren't.The last bit about random cataclysmic is that if it happens, it will rid the world of your imagined evil people and that would be a good thing. Not in a million years will it happen. The only hope is death.
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Post by lolly on Nov 25, 2013 19:35:50 GMT -5
There isn't really a why. There's just people and things that intend harm. The nature of violence is power, like rape, for example, is a violent act where power is asserted over a victim. Look at a biker gang, stronger more powerful than the next gang, then nations, more bombs more money more power... another example, Isreal, the spawn of war, only exists as the result of violence. Moses didn't enter, and they say that God forbade it, but considering what the Slaves did once they entered the Promised Land, one could speculate that Moses was a pacifist... Shalt not Kill... and the formation of that State after WWII... till today, God rains fire from the sky. The world is ignorant of good and evil, but each person hears the little whisper of conscience, some audibly, and others can't quite make it out. Kubrick said, “The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent, but if we can come to terms with this indifference, then our existence as a species can have genuine meaning. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light.” The spiritual path is for purity and the benefit of all beings. If we look at institutions they ultimately work for the benefit of their own structures, and Krishnamurti said: “When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.” So, that's my pondering on what underpins malevolence... or evil as we call it. Indifference IS evil. I don't see the connection. Is it because the universe simply operates over billenia and things live and die within it?
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Post by silver on Nov 25, 2013 20:12:04 GMT -5
Who the heck are 'they'? Everyone. You included.I can have a lot of fun imagining all these people walking around in the world unaware that some Joe Bloe is fuming 24.7 about these evil people. Lot of them doing their best for their families and/or themselves and/or their communities, some just keeping their noses out of trouble and not bothering anyone? Does someone have to be a hero in order not to wind up on your 'evil people' list? I agree, the world is a jungle, but don't you think it's a bit much to talk about you against 'everyone' else? That's the reality. I didn't say I had all these 'good' people surrounding me - I just know that they're out there. No, they aren't.The last bit about random cataclysmic is that if it happens, it will rid the world of your imagined evil people and that would be a good thing. Not in a million years will it happen. The only hope is death.You can keep on thinking that way -- I'd have real trouble living with MYSELF if I thought as you do. Talk about utter misery.
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Post by earnest on Nov 25, 2013 20:40:08 GMT -5
I don't see the connection. Is it because the universe simply operates over billenia and things live and die within it? I personally think this bleating about how the world needs to be a certain way is peverted... Some more Joseph Campbell on this topic... CAMPBELL: Life is, in its very essence and character, a terrible mystery – this whole business of living by killing and eating. But it is a childish attitude to say no to life with all its pain, to say that this is something that should not have been. MOYERS: Zorba says, “Trouble? Life is trouble.” CAMPBELL: Only death is no trouble. People ask me, “Do you have optimism about the world?” And I say, “Yes, it’s great just the way it is. And you are not going to fix it up. Nobody has ever made it any better. It is never going to be any better. This is it, so take it or leave it. You are not going to correct or improve it.” MOYERS: Doesn’t that lead to a rather passive attitude in the face of evil? CAMPBELL: You yourself are participating in the evil, or you are not alive. Whatever you do is evil for somebody. This is one of the ironies of the whole creation. MOYERS: What about this idea of good and evil in mythology, of life as a conflict between the forces of darkness and the forces of light? CAMPBELL: That is a Zoroastrian idea, which has come over into Judaism and Christianity. In other traditions, good and evil are relative to the position in which you are standing. What is good for one is evil for the other. And you play your part, not withdrawing from the world when you realize how horrible it is, but seeing that this horror is simply the foreground of a wonder: a mysterium tremendum et fascinans .
“All life is sorrowful” is the first Buddhist saying, and so it is. It wouldn’t be life if there were not temporality involved, which is sorrow – loss, loss, loss. You’ve got to say yes to life and see it as magnificent this way; for this is surely the way God intended it.
MOYERS: Do you really believe that?
CAMPBELL: It is joyful just as it is. I don’t believe there was anybody who intended it, but this is the way it is. James Joyce has a memorable line: “History is a nightmare from
which I am trying to awake.” And the way to awake from it is not to be afraid, and to recognize that all of this, as it is, is a manifestation of the horrendous power that is all creation. The ends of things are always painful. But pain is part of there being a world at all.
MOYERS: But if you accepted that as an ultimate conclusion, you wouldn’t try to form any laws or fight any battles or –
CAMPBELL: I didn’t say that. MOYERS: Isn’t that the logical conclusion to draw from accepting everything as it is?
CAMPBELL: That is not the necessary conclusion to draw. You could say, “I will participate in this life, I will join the army, I will go to war,” and so forth.
MOYERS: “I will do the best I can.”
CAMPBELL: “I will participate in the game. It is a wonderful, wonderful opera – except that it hurts.”
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Post by lolly on Nov 25, 2013 20:51:57 GMT -5
I don't see the connection. Is it because the universe simply operates over billenia and things live and die within it? I see a lot of evidence in this world that validates Joe's point of view. [/a]I'm not sure what those guys are talking about, which means that they're probably right about it being a terrible mystery. Should have/should not have... that is all covered pretty deeply by Hume... is and ought.[/quote]
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Post by quinn on Nov 25, 2013 21:17:37 GMT -5
CAMPBELL: “I will participate in the game. It is a wonderful, wonderful opera – except that it hurts.” Must steal this. Thanks, Earnest. Good stuff.
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Post by earnest on Nov 25, 2013 21:35:15 GMT -5
I see a lot of evidence in this world that validates Joe's point of view. [/a]I'm not sure what those guys are talking about, which means that they're probably right about it being a terrible mystery. Should have/should not have... that is all covered pretty deeply by Hume... is and ought.[/quote] [/quote] Yeah on the surface, I can see the same thing. Bad people do bad things to good people. Bad things randomly happen to good people. Misery, destruction, death, disease, famine, lying, cheating. Not fair at all. Go here for a fun afternoon of watching chaos unfold - www.liveleak.comI guess for me at some stage that view didn't seem to make sense anymore. It is the way it is. I can see that for myself in my own body and mind. Mental illness and chronic physical illness. Internal forms of warfare, destruction, un-fairness. Yet when I looked closely I could see that illness was just illness. There was a level *before* my thoughts about how unfair it all was. Seeing things at that level was liberating. I was way more active in getting well, and had better results, after I gave up hope of getting better (yay for the paradox). That internal destruction was ultimately liberating. I think the same applies in the outside world. Sh!t be happening, and where does setting yourself up in opposition to it get you? Nothing but suffering. Why throw your life away on something you can't ultimately do anything about? From that you can then just do what needs to be done. And sure it hurts, but so what. Who the F ever said you should have a life free from pain.... ? I churned on this stuff for years but it eventually started to clear by itself.
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