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Post by laughter on Nov 22, 2013 10:34:35 GMT -5
Obvious mockery again. Didn't you say "no mockery allowed"? What part don't you believe me? I absolutely hate it when I'm being mocked. And there you're doing it again. What is wrong with you? You think I'm just trying to imitate Kaufman all the time? This raises an excellent question: is laughter, in and of itself, at words on a page, always mockery?
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 22, 2013 10:43:53 GMT -5
Obvious mockery again. Didn't you say "no mockery allowed"? What part don't you believe me? I absolutely hate it when I'm being mocked. And there you're doing it again. What is wrong with you? You think I'm just trying to imitate Kaufman all the time? This raises an excellent question: is laughter, in and of itself, at words on a page, always mockery? Obviously not. In the last instance though it was obviously mockery. I say that I feel bad when you make jokes about me and you laugh in response. Can I read your response as anything other than mockery? Just don't do that anymore when you reply to me. I've said that a million times already, when are you going to respect it? Look, it's very simple. There are two possibilities: 1) I'm joking. 2) I'm not joking. If 1) is true and you stop making your stupid jokes then the only loss is some silly redundant jokes. If 2) is true and you continue with your jokes then you increase my suffering. There really is nothing to think about here. Just stop mocking me.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 10:46:21 GMT -5
Obvious mockery again. Didn't you say "no mockery allowed"? What part don't you believe me? I absolutely hate it when I'm being mocked. And there you're doing it again. What is wrong with you? You think I'm just trying to imitate Kaufman all the time? This raises an excellent question: is laughter, in and of itself, at words on a page, always mockery? No. Going with Farmer's definition, that would be laughter misunderstood as mockery. However, it might be hard to tell. I've seen the charge of mockery be applied to something that did not come close to the thing in my estimation. So to add to the subject of mockery, I'd add the allergy to mockery or sensitivity to it. I think those sorts of examples are much more 'useful' in terms of seeing projection than the basic ridicule/contempt/derision comments. Perhaps the communication of mockery flows on a spectrum between the intended to the unintended? Somewhere in between, may be unconscious forms of mockery.
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Post by laughter on Nov 22, 2013 10:51:17 GMT -5
This raises an excellent question: is laughter, in and of itself, at words on a page, always mockery? Obviously not. In the last instance though it was obviously mockery. I say that I feel bad when you make jokes about me and you laugh in response. Can I read your response as anything other than mockery? Just don't do that anymore when you reply to me. I've said that a million times already, when are you going to respect it? Look, it's very simple. There are two possibilities: 1) I'm joking. 2) I'm not joking. If 1) is true and you stop making your stupid jokes then the only loss is some silly redundant jokes. If 2) is true and you continue with your jokes then you increase my suffering. There really is nothing to think about here. Just stop mocking me. (** forces straight face **) Did you read the entire OP? There is one particular sentence that is particularly applicable.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 10:51:23 GMT -5
This raises an excellent question: is laughter, in and of itself, at words on a page, always mockery? Obviously not. In the last instance though it was obviously mockery. I say that I feel bad when you make jokes about me and you laugh in response. Can I read your response as anything other than mockery? Just don't do that anymore when you reply to me. I've said that a million times already, when are you going to respect it? Look, it's very simple. There are two possibilities: 1) I'm joking. 2) I'm not joking. If 1) is true and you stop making your stupid jokes then the only loss is some silly redundant jokes. If 2) is true and you continue with your jokes then you increase my suffering. There really is nothing to think about here. Just stop mocking me. This is a good project. If #1 is the case, perhaps the joke is a subtle form of mocking itself. And perhaps the mocking reply to that joke is a defense reaction. I'm thinking Tony Clifton right now. Reactions to Tony Clifton went from revulsion to discomfort to knowing laughter ('yes I'm in on the joke'). Great stuff. The folks that were disgusted became part of the joke to the folks that were in the room.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 22, 2013 10:54:49 GMT -5
(** forces straight face **) That's obvious mockery again. Please stop doing that.
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Post by laughter on Nov 22, 2013 10:56:24 GMT -5
This raises an excellent question: is laughter, in and of itself, at words on a page, always mockery? No. Going with Farmer's definition, that would be laughter misunderstood as mockery. However, it might be hard to tell. I've seen the charge of mockery be applied to something that did not come close to the thing in my estimation. So to add to the subject of mockery, I'd add the allergy to mockery or sensitivity to it. I think those sorts of examples are much more 'useful' in terms of seeing projection than the basic ridicule/contempt/derision comments. Perhaps the communication of mockery flows on a spectrum between the intended to the unintended? Somewhere in between, may be unconscious forms of mockery. My take is that regardless of the motivation or intent of the content that caused the sting, the sting itself, which in my opinion is something that is always created by the reader, is always an opportunity for the reader. Andy's point about how that might do some real damage is, as I acknowledged not something to take lightly, and some people should obviously be treated with kid gloves ... but making ST.org safe for the most vulnerable doesn't internet-proof anyone's den. Anywhere ... and the cost is an environment that has the potential to result in authenticity ... IOW, in my estimation, priceless.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 10:57:09 GMT -5
(** forces straight face **) That's obvious mockery again. Please stop doing that. You're gonna make poor Barney Fife tremble into a pool of cold sweat.
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Post by laughter on Nov 22, 2013 10:57:31 GMT -5
(** forces straight face **) That's obvious mockery again. Please stop doing that. Then I'd have to stop being honest.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 22, 2013 10:57:50 GMT -5
This is a good project. If #1 is the case, perhaps the joke is a subtle form of mocking itself. And perhaps the mocking reply to that joke is a defense reaction. I'm thinking Tony Clifton right now. Reactions to Tony Clifton went from revulsion to discomfort to knowing laughter ('yes I'm in on the joke'). Great stuff. The folks that were disgusted became part of the joke to the folks that were in the room. It's much simpler. The question is whether you repect the well-being (suffering) of others more than your own amusement.
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Post by laughter on Nov 22, 2013 10:58:26 GMT -5
That's obvious mockery again. Please stop doing that. You're gonna make poor Barney Fife tremble into a pool of cold sweat. Now! Now! just wait-a-minute there fella'! (self-mockery is not really mockery!!)
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Post by laughter on Nov 22, 2013 10:59:05 GMT -5
This is a good project. If #1 is the case, perhaps the joke is a subtle form of mocking itself. And perhaps the mocking reply to that joke is a defense reaction. I'm thinking Tony Clifton right now. Reactions to Tony Clifton went from revulsion to discomfort to knowing laughter ('yes I'm in on the joke'). Great stuff. The folks that were disgusted became part of the joke to the folks that were in the room. It's much simpler. The question is whether you repect the well-being (suffering) of others more than your own amusement. If words on a page are the cause of suffering, who is responsible?
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 22, 2013 11:00:48 GMT -5
That's obvious mockery again. Please stop doing that. Then I'd have to stop being honest. It had nothing to do with honesty. Just stop mocking me. Can someone please explain to me why this guy just won't stop mocking me? What explanation can there be other than that he is totally possessed by ego?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 11:02:55 GMT -5
No. Going with Farmer's definition, that would be laughter misunderstood as mockery. However, it might be hard to tell. I've seen the charge of mockery be applied to something that did not come close to the thing in my estimation. So to add to the subject of mockery, I'd add the allergy to mockery or sensitivity to it. I think those sorts of examples are much more 'useful' in terms of seeing projection than the basic ridicule/contempt/derision comments. Perhaps the communication of mockery flows on a spectrum between the intended to the unintended? Somewhere in between, may be unconscious forms of mockery. My take is that regardless of the motivation or intent of the content that caused the sting, the sting itself, which in my opinion is something that is always created by the reader, is always an opportunity for the reader. Andy's point about how that might do some real damage is, as I acknowledged not something to take lightly, and some people should obviously be treated with kid gloves ... but making ST.org safe for the most vulnerable doesn't internet-proof anyone's den. Anywhere ... and the cost is an environment that has the potential to result in authenticity ... IOW, in my estimation, priceless. My opinion is basically that I don't see overt mocking as doing anything helpful. Unconscious mocking can't be helped. Mocking that erupts like a fart may or may not be regrettable. It seems to me that the clearest, most carefully articulated message, sober and devoid of any mocking color, brings with it a whole host of landmines which may blow up at anytime, depending on the size of the feet of the reader. Those explosions can be helpful if there is a willingness to let the dust settle and see what happened. So intentional mocking muddies the water.
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Post by laughter on Nov 22, 2013 11:03:15 GMT -5
Then I'd have to stop being honest. It had nothing to do with honesty.Just stop mocking me. Can someone please explain to me why this guy just won't stop mocking me? What explanation can there be other than that he is totally possessed by ego? I disagree and I'm being serious -- I wouldn't be honest as it would be concealing the laughter. If you want to explore this seriously, please answer the question that went along with what you took as ridicule.
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