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Post by stardustpilgrim on Nov 20, 2013 22:36:02 GMT -5
Twenty-five years ago, almost to the day (Nov. 22), I was responsible for a man's death......through a stupid mistake, an error in judgment......being in a hurry on a Friday afternoon.....getting to the bank...... It was called an accident......but it was really my fault. OSHA investigated. I was the last person to be interviewed. The investigator only had to look at me and said to me...you feel responsible...don't you? I said yes. He told me that he could line up at least six people who were just as responsible as me. (The accident happened on the following Monday). But I've never seen it that way.....I was the first link in the chain.....my mistake allowed the other links.....There were no criminal charges.... It never made the news.......my sister and parents have never known......only a small circle knew what happened..... My former wife knew....... I was in the shower when my boss called........she got me out of the shower.......no.....you have to talk to him RIGHT NOW!!!! I'll never forget that........ At first you think about it at least once a minute......then after some weeks every five minutes.........later maybe once an hour.....later maybe once a day.......then every few weeks......then months.... Now I can go many months without thinking about it......... OK.........that's probably not what you had in mind with your question......... It's the worst thing that has ever happened to me. I think that only causing the death of your own child, could be more difficult. ......... But spiritual blood? .....No. I think that would have to be something deliberate.....nasty. But this is in a way...worse...... My Teacher brought it up once.....in a haphazard way.....but I knew that he knew......and brought it up in a haphazard way.....to give me some relief from the .....guilt....[The "accident" had happened during a period of time when I......to keep it simple, was taking a break from the spiritual journey....wasn't in contact with my Teacher......]. He asked us if we had ever murdered anyone. I said, killed, but not murdered. Then I told him (them....there were about seven of us there) the story. .........He made the point that there is a difference between being responsible for what happened.........and.......I actually can't remember the distinction he made......maybe I did get some relief......I'll have to try to pull that back up......maybe he said ..........oh.......I think {maybe} he said CAUSE ........a distinction between being responsible and having caused what happened........It was enough that he knew....and bothered (it wasn't a bother) to let me know he knew.......it was like he helped me....carry the burden........ sdp
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 13:04:27 GMT -5
Twenty-five years ago, almost to the day (Nov. 22), I was responsible for a man's death......through a stupid mistake, an error in judgment......being in a hurry on a Friday afternoon.....getting to the bank...... It was called an accident......but it was really my fault. OSHA investigated. I was the last person to be interviewed. The investigator only had to look at me and said to me...you feel responsible...don't you? I said yes. He told me that he could line up at least six people who were just as responsible as me. (The accident happened on the following Monday). But I've never seen it that way.....I was the first link in the chain.....my mistake allowed the other links.....There were no criminal charges.... It never made the news.......my sister and parents have never known......only a small circle knew what happened..... My former wife knew....... I was in the shower when my boss called........she got me out of the shower.......no.....you have to talk to him RIGHT NOW!!!! I'll never forget that........ At first you think about it at least once a minute......then after some weeks every five minutes.........later maybe once an hour.....later maybe once a day.......then every few weeks......then months.... Now I can go many months without thinking about it......... OK.........that's probably not what you had in mind with your question......... It's the worst thing that has ever happened to me. I think that only causing the death of your own child, could be more difficult. ......... But spiritual blood? .....No. I think that would have to be something deliberate.....nasty. But this is in a way...worse...... My Teacher brought it up once.....in a haphazard way.....but I knew that he knew......and brought it up in a haphazard way.....to give me some relief from the .....guilt....[The "accident" had happened during a period of time when I......to keep it simple, was taking a break from the spiritual journey....wasn't in contact with my Teacher......]. He asked us if we had ever murdered anyone. I said, killed, but not murdered. Then I told him (them....there were about seven of us there) the story. ......... He made the point that there is a difference between being responsible for what happened.........and.......I actually can't remember the distinction he made......maybe I did get some relief......I'll have to try to pull that back up......maybe he said ..........oh.......I think {maybe} he said CAUSE ........a distinction between being responsible and having caused what happened........It was enough that he knew....and bothered (it wasn't a bother) to let me know he knew.......it was like he helped me....carry the burden........ sdp Most Dream non-duality teachers teach from a fundamental misconception that there really is a person that has choice, free will, and volition. Of course that is a nonsense. And so they offer gifts of meditation, or self-inquiry, or personal development, or clarity or some other formula or prescription for the person to be able to find peace, or find happiness, or find enlightenment. Of course that is also a nonsense. The person with choice, free will, and volition, is an illusion it is unreal. Death happens but it is impossible for an illusion to be responsible for it. There is just What's Happening....no past, no future...just Being. And What's Happening isn't happening to a me, self, or I...
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Post by silver on Nov 21, 2013 13:25:54 GMT -5
Hey FJ.....from what many people say here, we are our own god -- I'm tending to think this way myself. No real savior but ourself. We have the power. We have ourselves wrapped around our little finger -- unless we don't - believe? know? *sigh*
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 1:47:00 GMT -5
Hey FJ.....from what many people say here, we are our own god -- I'm tending to think this way myself. No real savior but ourself. We have the power. We have ourselves wrapped around our little finger -- unless we don't - believe? know? *sigh* " 'I' am the way, the truth, and the light. "
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 14:34:24 GMT -5
Steve, lately I feel very tired and I don't have any motivation to do anything. It all seems pointless. I feel like I need to decompress. Solitary confinement sounds very nice. It feels like how one feels after losing their beloved and they just want to sleep, and you feel it in your stomach and heart. Listen to your body, it is guiding you....take the time to be solitary, to be still and quiet, to let things settle in their own way. Going to jail may not be the best route though, see if you can find a monastary somewhere near that has a guest program, or, better yet, do a few things for the household that you are staying at in a kind of sprint each day, meaning that you just take 15-20 minutes to help out around the house in a focused and high paced way, and then go off by yourself for most of the day...so you can be alone to 'settle'.....its a good phase to be in, don't try to force anything right now, just be how you are....God will clear the way for as long as you need during this phase. sometimes, when you empty out, it leaves you feeling like you are now, don't try to fill the emptyness, you are draining out, when you are all drained, there will be a space, it will seem empty, and you may feel like you should fill the space with something but you will not have the energy to do it....let this be....stay empty, drained. in empty there is EVERYTHING
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 14:50:38 GMT -5
" 'I' am the way, the truth, and the light. " Really? What does that mean? It means that you are everything, and everything is in you....your 'I' is the alpha and the omega, its the begging middle and end of everything you seek....Your 'I' is the light of the world.
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Post by lolly on Nov 22, 2013 19:01:34 GMT -5
When I read the op, I have to admit I was taken aback. It's a very traumatic and upsetting experience. It was the 22nd of November when I read SDP's OP so I think that played a particular significance for me. I mean, it's often the case that an anniversary of an event leads to revisiting or reminiscing about it, and that date arrives with the taste of the past on it.
The investigators found that the death was not caused by any persons neglect... but that doesn't mean that no one takes responsibility, as is the case here in rushing to the bank. One thing is certain, that the death was not intended, yet at least 6 people were parts of it, meaning at least 6 people were affected.
OK so it's a very hard experience and was kept as quiet as possible... it would difficult to talk about it and then what would anyone even say. It's not like you want to see shocked reactions and OMG ... etc. But it was spoken of with some people, though not in much depth by the sounds of it.
So over time it fades off and isn't thought about so often, but I guess the anniversary is one of those times.
I think the real truth is, this wasn't deliberate and nasty in any way at all. I'm not sure of the reasons that this is worse in some way... though I can speculate about the randomness of 'no reason' or 'no why' etc... which is just speculation on my part.
So it was asked about and a little was said, and I think it's really good to talk things through with someone who knows what it is to be traumatised. Here at st.org people tell you truth and light and there is no you and monstries and god and so on... and I don't know if that's suited to you or not. I think it would be best to talk to a professional who works with trauma... they'd know how to approach the issue and work with you to get passed this.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Nov 22, 2013 22:35:14 GMT -5
When I read the op, I have to admit I was taken aback. It's a very traumatic and upsetting experience. It was the 22nd of November when I read SDP's OP so I think that played a particular significance for me. I mean, it's often the case that an anniversary of an event leads to revisiting or reminiscing about it, and that date arrives with the taste of the past on it. The investigators found that the death was not caused by any persons neglect... but that doesn't mean that no one takes responsibility, as is the case here in rushing to the bank. One thing is certain, that the death was not intended, yet at least 6 people were parts of it, meaning at least 6 people were affected. OK so it's a very hard experience and was kept as quiet as possible... it would difficult to talk about it and then what would anyone even say. It's not like you want to see shocked reactions and OMG ... etc. But it was spoken of with some people, though not in much depth by the sounds of it. So over time it fades off and isn't thought about so often, but I guess the anniversary is one of those times. I think the real truth is, this wasn't deliberate and nasty in any way at all. I'm not sure of the reasons that this is worse in some way... though I can speculate about the randomness of 'no reason' or 'no why' etc... which is just speculation on my part. So it was asked about and a little was said, and I think it's really good to talk things through with someone who knows what it is to be traumatised. Here at st.org people tell you truth and light and there is no you and monstries and god and so on... and I don't know if that's suited to you or not. I think it would be best to talk to a professional who works with trauma... they'd know how to approach the issue and work with you to get passed this. Thanks lolly, what you have said means a lot. I don't want to say a lot more than I have. Concerning the randomness, one could say he died at the flip of a coin, quite literally. It had to do with polarity, hot (power) or neutral (ground, the return path necessary for electricity to flow). I essentially allowed the possibility for the coin flip. And your use of the word shocked, he was electrocuted. ...................... Also, it came to light, that the man who died was doing cocaine that very day. sdp
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2013 9:14:34 GMT -5
Twenty-five years ago, almost to the day (Nov. 22), I was responsible for a man's death......through a stupid mistake, an error in judgment......being in a hurry on a Friday afternoon.....getting to the bank...... It was called an accident......but it was really my fault. OSHA investigated. I was the last person to be interviewed. The investigator only had to look at me and said to me...you feel responsible...don't you? I said yes. He told me that he could line up at least six people who were just as responsible as me. (The accident happened on the following Monday). But I've never seen it that way.....I was the first link in the chain.....my mistake allowed the other links.....There were no criminal charges.... It never made the news.......my sister and parents have never known......only a small circle knew what happened..... My former wife knew....... I was in the shower when my boss called........she got me out of the shower.......no.....you have to talk to him RIGHT NOW!!!! I'll never forget that........ At first you think about it at least once a minute......then after some weeks every five minutes.........later maybe once an hour.....later maybe once a day.......then every few weeks......then months.... Now I can go many months without thinking about it......... OK.........that's probably not what you had in mind with your question......... It's the worst thing that has ever happened to me. I think that only causing the death of your own child, could be more difficult. ......... But spiritual blood? .....No. I think that would have to be something deliberate.....nasty. But this is in a way...worse...... My Teacher brought it up once.....in a haphazard way.....but I knew that he knew......and brought it up in a haphazard way.....to give me some relief from the .....guilt....[The "accident" had happened during a period of time when I......to keep it simple, was taking a break from the spiritual journey....wasn't in contact with my Teacher......]. He asked us if we had ever murdered anyone. I said, killed, but not murdered. Then I told him (them....there were about seven of us there) the story. .........He made the point that there is a difference between being responsible for what happened.........and.......I actually can't remember the distinction he made......maybe I did get some relief......I'll have to try to pull that back up......maybe he said ..........oh.......I think {maybe} he said CAUSE ........a distinction between being responsible and having caused what happened........It was enough that he knew....and bothered (it wasn't a bother) to let me know he knew.......it was like he helped me....carry the burden........ sdp Thanks for sharing sdp. That is a palpably heavy load. Makes my little recurring regrets so trivial in comparison.I second Lolly's suggestion of seeking the counsel of a pro.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2013 18:50:21 GMT -5
When I read the op, I have to admit I was taken aback. It's a very traumatic and upsetting experience. It was the 22nd of November when I read SDP's OP so I think that played a particular significance for me. I mean, it's often the case that an anniversary of an event leads to revisiting or reminiscing about it, and that date arrives with the taste of the past on it. The investigators found that the death was not caused by any persons neglect... but that doesn't mean that no one takes responsibility, as is the case here in rushing to the bank. One thing is certain, that the death was not intended, yet at least 6 people were parts of it, meaning at least 6 people were affected. OK so it's a very hard experience and was kept as quiet as possible... it would difficult to talk about it and then what would anyone even say. It's not like you want to see shocked reactions and OMG ... etc. But it was spoken of with some people, though not in much depth by the sounds of it. So over time it fades off and isn't thought about so often, but I guess the anniversary is one of those times. I think the real truth is, this wasn't deliberate and nasty in any way at all. I'm not sure of the reasons that this is worse in some way... though I can speculate about the randomness of 'no reason' or 'no why' etc... which is just speculation on my part. So it was asked about and a little was said, and I think it's really good to talk things through with someone who knows what it is to be traumatised. Here at st.org people tell you truth and light and there is no you and monstries and god and so on... and I don't know if that's suited to you or not. I think it would be best to talk to a professional who works with trauma... they'd know how to approach the issue and work with you to get passed this. Thanks lolly, what you have said means a lot. I don't want to say a lot more than I have. Concerning the randomness, one could say he died at the flip of a coin, quite literally. It had to do with polarity, hot (power) or neutral (ground, the return path necessary for electricity to flow). I essentially allowed the possibility for the coin flip. And your use of the word shocked, he was electrocuted. ...................... Also, it came to light, that the man who died was doing cocaine that very day. sdp Carrying that experience as a burden is a choice.
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Post by quinn on Nov 23, 2013 20:45:41 GMT -5
Thanks lolly, what you have said means a lot. I don't want to say a lot more than I have. Concerning the randomness, one could say he died at the flip of a coin, quite literally. It had to do with polarity, hot (power) or neutral (ground, the return path necessary for electricity to flow). I essentially allowed the possibility for the coin flip. And your use of the word shocked, he was electrocuted. ...................... Also, it came to light, that the man who died was doing cocaine that very day. sdp Carrying that experience as a burden is a choice. And who or what makes the decisions about which choice to choose?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2013 21:18:45 GMT -5
Carrying that experience as a burden is a choice. And who or what makes the decisions about which choice to choose? GodYou You are God Quinn
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Post by lolly on Nov 24, 2013 1:32:51 GMT -5
When I read the op, I have to admit I was taken aback. It's a very traumatic and upsetting experience. It was the 22nd of November when I read SDP's OP so I think that played a particular significance for me. I mean, it's often the case that an anniversary of an event leads to revisiting or reminiscing about it, and that date arrives with the taste of the past on it. The investigators found that the death was not caused by any persons neglect... but that doesn't mean that no one takes responsibility, as is the case here in rushing to the bank. One thing is certain, that the death was not intended, yet at least 6 people were parts of it, meaning at least 6 people were affected. OK so it's a very hard experience and was kept as quiet as possible... it would difficult to talk about it and then what would anyone even say. It's not like you want to see shocked reactions and OMG ... etc. But it was spoken of with some people, though not in much depth by the sounds of it. So over time it fades off and isn't thought about so often, but I guess the anniversary is one of those times. I think the real truth is, this wasn't deliberate and nasty in any way at all. I'm not sure of the reasons that this is worse in some way... though I can speculate about the randomness of 'no reason' or 'no why' etc... which is just speculation on my part. So it was asked about and a little was said, and I think it's really good to talk things through with someone who knows what it is to be traumatised. Here at st.org people tell you truth and light and there is no you and monstries and god and so on... and I don't know if that's suited to you or not. I think it would be best to talk to a professional who works with trauma... they'd know how to approach the issue and work with you to get passed this. Thanks lolly, what you have said means a lot. I don't want to say a lot more than I have. Concerning the randomness, one could say he died at the flip of a coin, quite literally. It had to do with polarity, hot (power) or neutral (ground, the return path necessary for electricity to flow). I essentially allowed the possibility for the coin flip. And your use of the word shocked, he was electrocuted. ...................... Also, it came to light, that the man who died was doing cocaine that very day. sdp Ok... It's good you said something, and I don't think it is good to say more here in an open public forum because the safeguards aren't in place and there's no protections. Here, people will use vulnerability as an opportunity promote their spiritualteacherhood, but actually, everyone's sensitive and delicate and vulnerable, which is why we treat each other with a lot of care... I have my own real life issues, and I think everyone does, and it takes a particular environment which is protected in confidentiality so that the propper kind of trust can be built on, then I can talk about deeper truths in more depth. Too bad that happened, being involved in that would be hard to live down... and I can reflect on things that I experienced which were, and sitll are, difficult to live with. People could tell me about God or that there is no me or that I have choice or anything else and it all sounds silly and glib, because there is no way of taking back the things that happened and it is now a part of this life... how to make peace with this life and how to embrace it all inclusively.
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Post by quinn on Nov 24, 2013 5:55:20 GMT -5
And who or what makes the decisions about which choice to choose? GodYou You are God Quinn Be that as it may. In a situation like this, to say "you can choose to drop the burden", is rather meaningless, isn't it? If SDP had a choice, do you think he would have chosen the pain of feeling guilt for 25 years? Yeah, sure, ultimately it's all a game or a dream or play and we're god-godding, yadda yadda yadda. But I don't see where choice fits into that. For me, the intense pain of heavy guilt was the catalyst for turning towards spirituality. So in a way, it was a good thing. But I didn't chose to let it go. It was more like - noticing its nature, noticing what guilt actually is, made it let go of me. Took all the hooks out of it.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Nov 24, 2013 9:40:36 GMT -5
Twenty-five years ago, almost to the day (Nov. 22), I was responsible for a man's death......through a stupid mistake, an error in judgment......being in a hurry on a Friday afternoon.....getting to the bank...... It was called an accident......but it was really my fault. OSHA investigated. I was the last person to be interviewed. The investigator only had to look at me and said to me...you feel responsible...don't you? I said yes. He told me that he could line up at least six people who were just as responsible as me. (The accident happened on the following Monday). But I've never seen it that way.....I was the first link in the chain.....my mistake allowed the other links.....There were no criminal charges.... It never made the news.......my sister and parents have never known......only a small circle knew what happened..... My former wife knew....... I was in the shower when my boss called........she got me out of the shower.......no.....you have to talk to him RIGHT NOW!!!! I'll never forget that........ At first you think about it at least once a minute......then after some weeks every five minutes.........later maybe once an hour.....later maybe once a day.......then every few weeks......then months.... Now I can go many months without thinking about it......... OK.........that's probably not what you had in mind with your question......... It's the worst thing that has ever happened to me. I think that only causing the death of your own child, could be more difficult. ......... But spiritual blood? .....No. I think that would have to be something deliberate.....nasty. But this is in a way...worse...... My Teacher brought it up once.....in a haphazard way.....but I knew that he knew......and brought it up in a haphazard way.....to give me some relief from the .....guilt....[The "accident" had happened during a period of time when I......to keep it simple, was taking a break from the spiritual journey....wasn't in contact with my Teacher......]. He asked us if we had ever murdered anyone. I said, killed, but not murdered. Then I told him (them....there were about seven of us there) the story. .........He made the point that there is a difference between being responsible for what happened.........and.......I actually can't remember the distinction he made......maybe I did get some relief......I'll have to try to pull that back up......maybe he said ..........oh.......I think {maybe} he said CAUSE ........a distinction between being responsible and having caused what happened........It was enough that he knew....and bothered (it wasn't a bother) to let me know he knew.......it was like he helped me....carry the burden........ sdp Thanks for sharing sdp. That is a palpably heavy load. Makes my little recurring regrets so trivial in comparison.I second Lolly's suggestion of seeking the counsel of a pro. A few years after it happened I discussed it with a Psychiatrist and his coworker, a Psychologist/therapist. My Teacher I mentioned was also a Psychologist by profession. I quite understand your comment. When life seems to get difficult, I know I can get through anything, because to worst thing has already happened (one possible exception already noted). Concerning getting 'over it'. Two functions, separate, thinking and feeling. I have come to terms with it intellectually, emotions have a mind of their own. I'm OK. "This too will pass". sdp
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