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Post by enigma on Nov 10, 2013 13:38:06 GMT -5
Essentially true, but the interesting thing about self deception is.....it isn't possible. I know, it's a confusing term in this context. At a certain level, self is deception. As I understand it (speaking noncommittally), the fundamental veil is self itself, which is nothing more than an unquestioned idea. A meme run amok. These words untethered. True, but I mean that even given a self structure, that structure cannot deceive itself. Or we could say what you actually are, operating through a belief in self, cannot deceive itself, so what actually IS self deception?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2013 13:51:00 GMT -5
I know, it's a confusing term in this context. At a certain level, self is deception. As I understand it (speaking noncommittally), the fundamental veil is self itself, which is nothing more than an unquestioned idea. A meme run amok. These words untethered. True, but I mean that even given a self structure, that structure cannot deceive itself. Or we could say what you actually are, operating through a belief in self, cannot deceive itself, so what actually IS self deception? Given that scenario, the only odd man out that could be creating the illusion of self deception, would be the belief in a self. The phenomena/activity of belief actually seems more important than the object of belief. edit: Though, perhaps, the concept of self is co-incident with belief itelf. IOW, they can not be separated. Like self and deception. The Deceiver and the deceived. It is the deceived that is on the dark side, the unconscious side, of belief. But why, in this scenario, would 'what you actually are' allow the deceiver to arise at all? Deception happens innocently. The child takes it as a given and it is reinforced throughout, constantly.
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Post by enigma on Nov 10, 2013 20:34:44 GMT -5
True, but I mean that even given a self structure, that structure cannot deceive itself. Or we could say what you actually are, operating through a belief in self, cannot deceive itself, so what actually IS self deception? Given that scenario, the only odd man out that could be creating the illusion of self deception, would be the belief in a self. The phenomena/activity of belief actually seems more important than the object of belief. edit: Though, perhaps, the concept of self is co-incident with belief itelf. IOW, they can not be separated. Like self and deception. The Deceiver and the deceived. It is the deceived that is on the dark side, the unconscious side, of belief. But why, in this scenario, would 'what you actually are' allow the deceiver to arise at all? 'What you actually are' is not a thinker/allower. Identification is an illusion. Illusion is not what I mean when we talk about self deception. Mistaking a mirage for an oasis or a rope for a snake is not a self deception. Denial and projection are examples of self deception. The split mind is self deception. But it's really a misnomer because self deception isn't possible. It's actually a mind game. I'm suggesting it's useful to realize this.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2013 12:29:38 GMT -5
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Post by laughter on Nov 12, 2013 18:19:24 GMT -5
heh heh ... the first cut is the deepest ...
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