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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2013 14:24:15 GMT -5
"If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, Infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things through narrow chinks of his cavern."
~William Blake
How does perception and perspective relate to this existence?
How may one best see?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2013 14:34:40 GMT -5
It's funny, I was going to write a thread asking whether it is more useful to be aware of perceptions, or to attempt to extinguish the existence of perception.
For me, it is a part of my spiritual practise to be aware of my perceptions. that awareness gives me responsibility for how I use my perceptions. So rather than becoming lost in them, I can view them honestly for what they are.
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Post by silver on Nov 5, 2013 14:43:36 GMT -5
"If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, Infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things through narrow chinks of his cavern." ~William Blake How does perception and perspective relate to this existence? How may one best see? Mr. Blake is right, but it's still a matter of degrees. How well can an individual function if there's too much information to deal with? What serious effect does 'seeing things for what they 'are'' have on our conclusions/actions?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2013 14:50:05 GMT -5
It's funny, I was going to write a thread asking whether it is more useful to be aware of perceptions, or to attempt to extinguish the existence of perception. For me, it is a part of my spiritual practise to be aware of my perceptions. that awareness gives me responsibility for how I use my perceptions. So rather than becoming lost in them, I can view them honestly for what they are. I don't think we can fiddle with our perceptions, only our interpretation of perception. The doorways to perception are what can be opened or not. Full on, 100% unobstructed perception, the doors wide open, is how I understand Tzu's 'still mind' and is ATA at it's finest. Obstructed perception is mostly the case and the project as I see it is to remove the obstructions. It's a trick, though, and I have no advice or expertise on the matter. It seems to me the obstructions to just pure perception are mostly unconscious. So how does one consciously clean out unconscious obstructions? Folks talk about seeing through beliefs, letting go of attachments...but these seem like descriptions of what happens and not prescriptions.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2013 15:00:27 GMT -5
It's funny, I was going to write a thread asking whether it is more useful to be aware of perceptions, or to attempt to extinguish the existence of perception. For me, it is a part of my spiritual practise to be aware of my perceptions. that awareness gives me responsibility for how I use my perceptions. So rather than becoming lost in them, I can view them honestly for what they are. Hi Autumn, Regarding being aware of perceptions, do you mean being 'self' aware of perceiving? Though this is a poor conceptualization, there seems to be a 'Good', 'Better', and 'Best'. 'Good' would be being consciously aware of your perceptions as opposed to being lost or unconsciously absorbed in them. 'Better' would be being consciously aware of the perceiver perceiving. 'Best' would be perceiving in a manner absolutely free of reasoning, knowing, naming, and identifying. Perceiving directly and openly, with the cognitive lens removed so to speak....Perceiving without 'knowing', identifying, and defining, removes the blinders to the obviousness of the infinite that Blake pointed to. I'm of the experience that spending at least a few moments randomly and often throughout the living of daily life perceiving in that 'Best' manner, informs the mind in ways that are wonderful in our existence, and helps to integrate our consciousness as an infinite Being functioning in a sphere of manifesting phenomena.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2013 15:13:12 GMT -5
It's funny, I was going to write a thread asking whether it is more useful to be aware of perceptions, or to attempt to extinguish the existence of perception. For me, it is a part of my spiritual practise to be aware of my perceptions. that awareness gives me responsibility for how I use my perceptions. So rather than becoming lost in them, I can view them honestly for what they are. I don't think we can fiddle with our perceptions, only our interpretation of perception. The doorways to perception are what can be opened or not. Full on, 100% unobstructed perception, the doors wide open, is how I understand Tzu's 'still mind' and is ATA at it's finest. Obstructed perception is mostly the case and the project as I see it is to remove the obstructions. It's a trick, though, and I have no advice or expertise on the matter. It seems to me the obstructions to just pure perception are mostly unconscious. So how does one consciously clean out unconscious obstructions? Folks talk about seeing through beliefs, letting go of attachments...but these seem like descriptions of what happens and not prescriptions. Once a person understands the mechanics of perception, they can become aware of their perceptions in the moment. Then, rather than react, they can learn to stop and take a step back, and ask why they feel/think/see or react that way. Those questions are no small or easy challenges to follow - they take a person through their psychological make-up - that is the very experiences (good/bad and ugly) that created the perceptions. It takes a person to the roots of what made them. Then there is a choice. Do you accept experience in all its joy and pain and see the person it made. Or do you say, I understand and will no longer allow experience to have a voice in my life. I've known people go either way. Personally, I don't want to deny my experiences, but I don't want to be controlled by them either. So I take on the work to reflect upon my perceptions.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2013 15:15:41 GMT -5
It's funny, I was going to write a thread asking whether it is more useful to be aware of perceptions, or to attempt to extinguish the existence of perception. For me, it is a part of my spiritual practise to be aware of my perceptions. that awareness gives me responsibility for how I use my perceptions. So rather than becoming lost in them, I can view them honestly for what they are. Hi Autumn, Regarding being aware of perceptions, do you mean being 'self' aware of perceiving? Though this is a poor conceptualization, there seems to be a 'Good', 'Better', and 'Best'. 'Good' would be being consciously aware of your perceptions as opposed to being lost or unconsciously absorbed in them. 'Better' would be being consciously aware of the perceiver perceiving. 'Best' would be perceiving in a manner absolutely free of reasoning, knowing, naming, and identifying. Perceiving directly and openly, with the cognitive lens removed so to speak....Perceiving without 'knowing', identifying, and defining, removes the blinders to the obviousness of the infinite that Blake pointed to. I'm of the experience that spending at least a few moments randomly and often throughout the living of daily life perceiving in that 'Best' manner, informs the mind in ways that are wonderful in our existence, and helps to integrate our consciousness as an infinite Being functioning in a sphere of manifesting phenomena. Hi Steve, I just saw this. I feel my previous reply should answer what you've asked. So won't repeat myself, but wanted to acknowledge.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2013 15:43:52 GMT -5
Hmmm....this is interesting...seems like we might have to start with:
What is Perception?
And
What are Perceptions?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2013 16:00:59 GMT -5
Once a person understands the mechanics of perception, they can become aware of their perceptions in the moment. Then, rather than react, they can learn to stop and take a step back, and ask why they feel/think/see or react that way. Those questions are no small or easy challenges to follow - they take a person through their psychological make-up - that is the very experiences (good/bad and ugly) that created the perceptions. It takes a person to the roots of what made them. Then there is a choice. Do you accept experience in all its joy and pain and see the person it made. Or do you say, I understand and will no longer allow experience to have a voice in my life. I've known people go either way. Personally, I don't want to deny my experiences, but I don't want to be controlled by them either. So I take on the work to reflect upon my perceptions. Hi Autumn....in that bolded bit, you seem to be indicating that you see 'perceptions' as a mental phenomena, as in ones views or beliefs....is this accurate? I was, and I believe that Blake was, referring to perception as perceiving the sensate world with naked awareness. Can you give me an example of a perception that you would 'be aware of'? By 'perceptions', do you mean beliefs about what is perceived? Yes, I see perceptions as a mental phenomena, but not necessarily as belief, because one can experience the mental phenomena without believing in its reality/trueness. The difference between sensory perception and mental perception, is that sensory perception is the perception relating to senses = I see a male change his facial expression...now his lips upturn in what I call a smile, lines around his eyes crease and sound comes from his mouth with a forceful expression of air. That is pure sensory perception. Mental perception is based on previous experience = I see a man laughing because he has found something funny. It is what gives meaning to the pure sensory experience. Whilst the above example enriches the sensory experience with meaning, other mental perceptions can create more destructive experiences.
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Post by laughter on Nov 5, 2013 16:17:07 GMT -5
Hmmm....this is interesting...seems like we might have to start with: What is Perception? And What are Perceptions? At the root of the question is what is meant by mind and in treating the word perception as you've suggested (and as I take Blake to mean), as opposed to treating mind as unitive to identity, we distinguish between body and mind in what is sometimes referred to as body/mind. A state of being that is integrated between body and mind has characteristics that some work toward, for whatever reason. Regardless of this, it seems to me that on one hand simply making the distinction between the two doesn't necessarily imply the absence of this integration. On the other hand, a state of being that involves integration of the two still leaves, as any integration does, that which is integrated as distinguished against what wasn't included in the integration.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2013 17:27:22 GMT -5
What do you think Blake is talking about regarding cleansing the doors of perception?
What are the doors of perception, and what is your way of cleansing them?
What does the cleansed doors of perception reveal?
What is the view so to speak?
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Post by laughter on Nov 5, 2013 17:42:52 GMT -5
What do you think Blake is talking about regarding cleansing the doors of perception? Watching the thinker, attending the sense of being, directing attention away from conceptual thought and toward the actual. Cultivating the witness attitude. What are the doors of perception, and what is your way of cleansing them? What does the cleansed doors of perception reveal? What is the view so to speak? (** skijump! **)
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Post by silver on Nov 5, 2013 17:46:26 GMT -5
"If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, Infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things through narrow chinks of his cavern." ~William Blake How does perception and perspective relate to this existence? How may one best see? What was this taken from? Is there anything that he wrote before or after that would help us better get what he was on about?
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Post by laughter on Nov 5, 2013 18:16:56 GMT -5
I claim fair use! Full Circle
Wind whistling through the trees Rose Quartz Endless starry skies The smell of a summer night Wafting through my bedroom window
Oh to have the simple wonder The unchained thoughts The unfettered heart Of a foolish child In a world still too big To fit in a shoe box
Just once more God I promise I won't be careless with it This time -- pg 27 of Satsang Poetry, Copyright 2012 (c) Phil Beaumont (a.k.a., Enigma), all rights reserved
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2013 19:09:55 GMT -5
Dunno Silver...I got it from a forum with picture quotes that Laughter linked to.
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