|
Post by enigma on Oct 24, 2013 23:50:24 GMT -5
You don't really know anything about those people, either their current state or their history with suffering. Surrender comes out of struggle, not a positive attitude. (It's a general statement. Please don't tell me about cousin Joe who chose to be happy and became enlightened.) Okay dokie...but it may be possible that you're over invested in this whole suffering thang....just sayin... Its possible :-) Why, because I don't see things the way you do? You make an argument for a positive attitude toward the end of self realization or whatever. If anything, I see an inverse correlation as evidenced by many who have apparently awakened at times of great struggle and futility. You argue against that correlation with hearsay evidence. Are you sure you're not seeing your own investment?
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Oct 24, 2013 23:51:45 GMT -5
Poets should never talk to each other. Is that because too much joy might ensue lol No, because they usually don't know or care what each other is saying. lol
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Oct 24, 2013 23:55:52 GMT -5
You don't really know anything about those people, either their current state or their history with suffering. Surrender comes out of struggle, not a positive attitude. (It's a general statement. Please don't tell me about cousin Joe who chose to be happy and became enlightened.) Actually, I said "upon further inspection" purposefully....I was there interviewing them in an in depth manner for a 2 to 3 day period each, 4 to 6 hours per day...over about a ten year period. Good Lord! That must be the most in depth research project ever undertaken. Actually, I don't believe you.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2013 0:22:29 GMT -5
Actually, I said "upon further inspection" purposefully....I was there interviewing them in an in depth manner for a 2 to 3 day period each, 4 to 6 hours per day...over about a ten year period. Good Lord! That must be the most in depth research project ever undertaken. Actually, I don't believe you. Lol....well, believe it or not, it was my job for about ten years ;-) and it wasn't a single research project, it was about 1000 professional engagements as an analyst ;-)
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Oct 25, 2013 2:58:44 GMT -5
The it is the self, as that's the only it capable of encompassing the attendant, the camel, the sand, the sun, the mirage ... so no IT nothing predominant and nothing yet to be discovered by science one retains their original creator-status and that's it? Well, no it that's actually IT because naming it distinguishes it from what it isn't ... but it points anyways! ... Anything that retains witholds, and there is the witholder, witholdee and that witheld. Science will always have something new to discover because every answer midwifes 10,000 new mysteries! There is no creator.
|
|
|
Post by acewall on Oct 25, 2013 4:43:26 GMT -5
so no IT nothing predominant and nothing yet to be discovered by science one retains their original creator-status and that's it? Well, no it that's actually IT because naming it distinguishes it from what it isn't ... but it points anyways! ... Anything that retains witholds, and there is the witholder, witholdee and that witheld. Science will always have something new to discover because every answer midwifes 10,000 new mysteries! There is no creator. nil creator yet you an I are creating all this sh-t? Talking about big numbers...ie (10,000 new mysteries!) me wife stood on a live 28,000volt cable that fell of the lines out front of our house, Sunday which freaked the power Authorities out! They made me take her to Hospital, who kept her wired-up for two hours, awaiting her heart beat to come below 100, a smaller number. Sh-t...I could of lost-her! Do you think life would create another for me, or do you think Im well past my use-bye date here on the globe?
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Oct 25, 2013 11:17:59 GMT -5
Thinking positively is survival instinct? How do you figure? I realize it's hard for you to understand that. It's not a given, I don't have stats or anything like that, but I think steve posted a link or links to something about that, I'm not sure.... I do have an example: I grew up with my grandmother (mother's side) and my father, who were both individuals who lived through the Great Depression. People back then helped one another, which I think is a positive attitude/frame of mind. Helping each other certainly can't be put under any other umbrella but positive thinking. Lots of people I've met over the years are stingy and selfish, and wouldn't help anybody and things have gotten to a point where people are afraid to be 'taken' advantage of, you know what I mean? And now, times are tough and people that didn't grow up in those hard times are more negative and we see an awful lot of people becoming full of despair and finding themselves isolated. I know this is a long example, but I think there's some truth to the positive thinking thing in here. It's just one example. You're right, I don't understand.
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Oct 25, 2013 11:22:27 GMT -5
Good Lord! That must be the most in depth research project ever undertaken. Actually, I don't believe you. Lol....well, believe it or not, it was my job for about ten years ;-) and it wasn't a single research project, it was about 1000 professional engagements as an analyst ;-) It was your job to try to understand what they want in business and help them get it, which really has nothing to do with how attitude and suffering relate to enlightenment.
|
|
|
Post by silver on Oct 25, 2013 11:26:40 GMT -5
I realize it's hard for you to understand that. It's not a given, I don't have stats or anything like that, but I think steve posted a link or links to something about that, I'm not sure.... I do have an example: I grew up with my grandmother (mother's side) and my father, who were both individuals who lived through the Great Depression. People back then helped one another, which I think is a positive attitude/frame of mind. Helping each other certainly can't be put under any other umbrella but positive thinking. Lots of people I've met over the years are stingy and selfish, and wouldn't help anybody and things have gotten to a point where people are afraid to be 'taken' advantage of, you know what I mean? And now, times are tough and people that didn't grow up in those hard times are more negative and we see an awful lot of people becoming full of despair and finding themselves isolated. I know this is a long example, but I think there's some truth to the positive thinking thing in here. It's just one example. You're right, I don't understand. So sorry for that Edith Bunker-type answer. I'm trying to say that if people are either negative-minded or indifferent-minded, how likely are they to join in - join hands with others seeing that they are in the same plight? I guess another thing to ponder is how we see the insects such as ants and bees and wasps how they work as a family-type team for their survival -- if they were apathetic or depressed or pesstimistic, would they join the crowd, pitch in and help or sit on the sidelines? I don't know about you, but it makes me wonder if their little minds and hearts have such parallels to average people. Whatever it is they have, it sure seems hardwired to me.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2013 11:27:28 GMT -5
Stumbled upon this today: 4 noble truisms
i. Life is sexually transmitted.
ii. Good health is the slowest painless rate at which to die.
iii. Take a lesson from the weather. It pays no attention to criticism.
iv. Don't worry about old age-- it doesn't last that long.
I've actually read that a grouchy cantankerous contrarian attitude helps one live longer while maintaining mental acuity and sharpness.
This morning in the men's locker room one of the grouchy octogenarians shuffled in. Outside it was a beautiful Fall morning - clear, starry sky with a few cumulous, giving way to dawnlight on red and yellow leaves, crisp.
I asked him how he was doing. He said: "Not too happy about this weather." It's a typical reply from him, funnily. (The Red Sox lost game 2 last night, context important to understand.) I could only muffle a snort.
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Oct 25, 2013 12:12:21 GMT -5
You're right, I don't understand. So sorry for that Edith Bunker-type answer. I'm trying to say that if people are either negative-minded or indifferent-minded, how likely are they to join in - join hands with others seeing that they are in the same plight? I guess another thing to ponder is how we see the insects such as ants and bees and wasps how they work as a family-type team for their survival -- if they were apathetic or depressed or pesstimistic, would they join the crowd, pitch in and help or sit on the sidelines? I don't know about you, but it makes me wonder if their little minds and hearts have such parallels to average people. Whatever it is they have, it sure seems hardwired to me. Okay. We could possibly say that what is 'hardwired' is Love, which is not about positive and negative attitudes. IOW, it's not really a positive attitude that makes folks want to cooperate and help and be compassionate and empathetic, unless the helping is done for self serving reasons. (which it usually is) It's something else that drives all of life on a more fundamental level before positive and negative attitudes even enter the picture. In fact, humans have a tendency to get caught up in their pettiness until disaster strikes, which often shakes them out of it like a slap in the face, putting things into a larger, more sane perspective. The creatures of the forest never lost their sanity to begin with, and so they don't become petty and negative and don't feel the need to foster a positive outlook on life. They are already functioning on that fundamental level in which Love is the driving force of life, and cooperation is inherent in their wholeness. Instinct and hardwired behavior is how science tries to make sense of God where there is nothing trying to be something else.
|
|
|
Post by silver on Oct 25, 2013 12:16:28 GMT -5
So sorry for that Edith Bunker-type answer. I'm trying to say that if people are either negative-minded or indifferent-minded, how likely are they to join in - join hands with others seeing that they are in the same plight? I guess another thing to ponder is how we see the insects such as ants and bees and wasps how they work as a family-type team for their survival -- if they were apathetic or depressed or pesstimistic, would they join the crowd, pitch in and help or sit on the sidelines? I don't know about you, but it makes me wonder if their little minds and hearts have such parallels to average people. Whatever it is they have, it sure seems hardwired to me. Okay. We could possibly say that what is 'hardwired' is Love, which is not about positive and negative attitudes. IOW, it's not really a positive attitude that makes folks want to cooperate and help and be compassionate and empathetic, unless the helping is done for self serving reasons. (which it usually is) It's something else that drives all of life on a more fundamental level before positive and negative attitudes even enter the picture. In fact, humans have a tendency to get caught up in their pettiness until disaster strikes, which often shakes them out of it like a slap in the face, putting things into a larger, more sane perspective. The creatures of the forest never lost their sanity to begin with, and so they don't become petty and negative and don't feel the need to foster a positive outlook on life. They are already functioning on that fundamental level in which Love is the driving force of life, and cooperation is inherent in their wholeness. Instinct and hardwired behavior is how science tries to make sense of God where there is nothing trying to be something else. All right. We both have very loose theories here -- no solid scientific evidence of course. just personal opinions - educated guesses.......Let's just be clear on that.
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Oct 25, 2013 12:20:01 GMT -5
Stumbled upon this today: 4 noble truisms i. Life is sexually transmitted. ii. Good health is the slowest painless rate at which to die. iii. Take a lesson from the weather. It pays no attention to criticism. iv. Don't worry about old age-- it doesn't last that long. I've actually read that a grouchy cantankerous contrarian attitude helps one live longer while maintaining mental acuity and sharpness. This morning in the men's locker room one of the grouchy octogenarians shuffled in. Outside it was a beautiful Fall morning - clear, starry sky with a few cumulous, giving way to dawnlight on red and yellow leaves, crisp. I asked him how he was doing. He said: "Not too happy about this weather." It's a typical reply from him, funnily. (The Red Sox lost game 2 last night, context important to understand.) I could only muffle a snort. My sense is that longevity is about engagement and not quality of attitude. (Anger, depression and suffering are also engagement)
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Oct 25, 2013 12:23:44 GMT -5
Okay. We could possibly say that what is 'hardwired' is Love, which is not about positive and negative attitudes. IOW, it's not really a positive attitude that makes folks want to cooperate and help and be compassionate and empathetic, unless the helping is done for self serving reasons. (which it usually is) It's something else that drives all of life on a more fundamental level before positive and negative attitudes even enter the picture. In fact, humans have a tendency to get caught up in their pettiness until disaster strikes, which often shakes them out of it like a slap in the face, putting things into a larger, more sane perspective. The creatures of the forest never lost their sanity to begin with, and so they don't become petty and negative and don't feel the need to foster a positive outlook on life. They are already functioning on that fundamental level in which Love is the driving force of life, and cooperation is inherent in their wholeness. Instinct and hardwired behavior is how science tries to make sense of God where there is nothing trying to be something else. All right. We both have very loose theories here -- no solid scientific evidence of course. just personal opinions - educated guesses.......Let's just be clear on that. I have no interest in scientific evidence. I'm only interested in what I see for myself when I look at 'what is' with a still mind.
|
|
|
Post by silver on Oct 25, 2013 12:26:34 GMT -5
All right. We both have very loose theories here -- no solid scientific evidence of course. just personal opinions - educated guesses.......Let's just be clear on that. I have no interest in scientific evidence. I'm only interested in what I see for myself when I look at 'what is' with a still mind. You got company -- no need for the mean-bug smiley. That thing is scary.
|
|