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Post by laughter on Oct 23, 2013 20:19:27 GMT -5
to the exclusion of all else? then the Camel attendant is riddled with flea-like concepts in his mind which he still needs to read the map across the Sahara. How does the "then" fit in what you wrote? If you say the camel and the attendant are one but not one with the sun, the sand and the mirage you mean one thing. Did you mean something else?
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Post by laughter on Oct 23, 2013 20:20:13 GMT -5
Vigyan Bhairav Tantra: 9. ... suck something and become the sucking.
Lmao.... thats actually a pretty cool method believe it or not...there is this feeling of Power that wells up in you as a side effect of that one ... wells up ... to an eruption of a sorts? ...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2013 20:30:39 GMT -5
Lmao.... thats actually a pretty cool method believe it or not...there is this feeling of Power that wells up in you as a side effect of that one ... wells up ... to an eruption of a sorts? ... Haha....no lol guess you're not familiar with the "no climax" aspect of Tantra huh? seriously though, here's the method: Suck on something...the back of your hand will do ;-) suck on it long and hard like you were trying to give the back of your hand a hickey....but try to notice the FEELING of "drawing in" that is at the heart of the "sucking"....when you are aware of that feeling of drawing in at the heart of the sucking, immerse yourself in that feeling and maintain it while you drop the physical act of sucking. now let that feeling of "drawing in" permeate your whole body, as if you are sucking inward with your whole body....and just maintain that inward pull of gravity. If you have the nack of it, it feels like you are drawing in increasing amounts of prana, or life force, or energy...and that the whole universe is 'centering' and being drawn into you. You end up being very centered in what the tibetans call Rigpa...or naked awareness. its one of those methods that is fairly easy "to get"...and after the first time you can usually skip the actual physical sucking part and go right to the "drawing inward" with your whole body.
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Post by laughter on Oct 23, 2013 20:34:20 GMT -5
... wells up ... to an eruption of a sorts? ... Haha....no lol guess you're not familiar with the "no climax" aspect of Tantra huh? seriously though, here's the method: Suck on something...the back of your hand will do ;-) suck on it long and hard like you were trying to give the back of your hand a hickey....but try to notice the FEELING of "drawing in" that is at the heart of the "sucking"....when you are aware of that feeling of drawing in at the heart of the sucking, immerse yourself in that feeling and maintain it while you drop the physical act of sucking. now let that feeling of "drawing in" permeate your whole body, as if you are sucking inward with your whole body....and just maintain that inward pull of gravity. If you have the nack of it, it feels like you are drawing in immense amounts of prana, or life force, or energy...and that the whole universe is 'centering' and being drawn into you. You end up being very centered in what the tibetans call Rigpa...or naked awareness. its one of those methods that is fairly easy "to get"...and after the first time you can usually skip the actual physical sucking part and go right to the "drawing inward" with your whole body. wow, a practice that literally sucks!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2013 20:37:37 GMT -5
Haha....no lol guess you're not familiar with the "no climax" aspect of Tantra huh? seriously though, here's the method: Suck on something...the back of your hand will do ;-) suck on it long and hard like you were trying to give the back of your hand a hickey....but try to notice the FEELING of "drawing in" that is at the heart of the "sucking"....when you are aware of that feeling of drawing in at the heart of the sucking, immerse yourself in that feeling and maintain it while you drop the physical act of sucking. now let that feeling of "drawing in" permeate your whole body, as if you are sucking inward with your whole body....and just maintain that inward pull of gravity. If you have the nack of it, it feels like you are drawing in immense amounts of prana, or life force, or energy...and that the whole universe is 'centering' and being drawn into you. You end up being very centered in what the tibetans call Rigpa...or naked awareness. its one of those methods that is fairly easy "to get"...and after the first time you can usually skip the actual physical sucking part and go right to the "drawing inward" with your whole body. wow, a practice that literally sucks! Yeah...and ironically, the practice that sucks does't suck lmao....its one of the easiest and most enjoyable.
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Post by laughter on Oct 23, 2013 20:38:27 GMT -5
wow, a practice that literally sucks! Yeah...and ironically, the practice that sucks does't suck lmao....its one of the easiest and most enjoyable. easy to maintain a positive mental outlook during this practice!
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Post by enigma on Oct 23, 2013 20:39:45 GMT -5
If we are talking in the context of awakening/enlightenment/realization then the mental outlook doesn't matter at all. If we are talking about personal growth then the outlook is extremely important, of course. (LOA). And I agree, if there's a path, it should be joyful. Suffering yourself into bliss sounds absurd. But ... is there a path?To that last bit, Niz and others have talked about what they called the Way of the Bird, and the Way of the Ant.....for the Way of the Ant, there is a path, a sure and steady and reliable one. The Way of the Bird needs no "path" and happens suddenly, though it does seem that placing the fruit in the sun so to speak may be of use. For obvious reasons in our consumer I want it Right Now society, the Way of the Ant is set aside, even shunned, despite its almost guaranteed "results". The Way of the Bird is much more loved, despite the fact that it seems so hit or miss. To the first bit....agreed for the most part, but even in the spiritual awakening field (which is very closely connected to LOA) its hard for anything to happen when one is closed off in negativity, because an aspect of negativity is strong attachments and clung to beliefs. Even Gautama, who by all accounts was in a pretty negative frame of mind under that Bodhi Tree, had to let go of everything, including the negativity for realization. But again, I don 't want to over emphasize a positive outlook with regards to realization...and I certainly don't want anyone developing attachments...but a positive attitude rarely hurts or hinders, while a negative outlook very often does. Negativity, in the form of suffering, depression and futility, can be very powerful in bringing about a willingness and sincerity that otherwise might never happen.
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Post by enigma on Oct 23, 2013 20:40:55 GMT -5
To that last bit, Niz and others have talked about what they called the Way of the Bird, and the Way of the Ant.....for the Way of the Ant, there is a path, a sure and steady and reliable one. The Way of the Bird needs no "path" and happens suddenly, though it does seem that placing the fruit in the sun so to speak may be of use. For obvious reasons in our consumer I want it Right Now society, the Way of the Ant is set aside, even shunned, despite its almost guaranteed "results". The Way of the Bird is much more loved, despite the fact that it seems so hit or miss. To the first bit....agreed for the most part, but even in the spiritual awakening field (which is very closely connected to LOA) its hard for anything to happen when one is closed off in negativity, because an aspect of negativity is strong attachments and clung to beliefs.
Even Gautama, who by all accounts was in a pretty negative frame of mind under that Bodhi Tree, had to let go of everything, including the negativity for realization. But again, I don 't want to over emphasize a positive outlook with regards to realization...and I certainly don't want anyone developing attachments...bit a positive attitude rately hurts or hinders, while a negative outlook very often does. Tell that to Eckhart Tolle! Zacklee.
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Post by laughter on Oct 23, 2013 20:42:49 GMT -5
Tell that to Eckhart Tolle! Zacklee. He's always on the verge of laughing that guy ... " I can't live with myself any longer! ... wait... that's a funny question, how could there be two of me?..."
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2013 20:42:57 GMT -5
Yeah...and ironically, the practice that sucks does't suck lmao....its one of the easiest and most enjoyable. easy to maintain a positive mental outlook during this practice! Haha....yeah
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Post by enigma on Oct 23, 2013 20:45:37 GMT -5
I'd say the natural state can comes across as positive because that's what everyone is naturally drawn to. Check this out: content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2074067,00.html the brain is hardwired for positivity and optimism...its a survival thing....its called optimism bias. we are wired so that the "natural state" is generally positive, even irrationally so. It just means that we pretend things are better than they are because it makes us feel betterer. Nobody should be encouraged to do this as it's already self deception.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2013 20:50:37 GMT -5
To that last bit, Niz and others have talked about what they called the Way of the Bird, and the Way of the Ant.....for the Way of the Ant, there is a path, a sure and steady and reliable one. The Way of the Bird needs no "path" and happens suddenly, though it does seem that placing the fruit in the sun so to speak may be of use. For obvious reasons in our consumer I want it Right Now society, the Way of the Ant is set aside, even shunned, despite its almost guaranteed "results". The Way of the Bird is much more loved, despite the fact that it seems so hit or miss. To the first bit....agreed for the most part, but even in the spiritual awakening field (which is very closely connected to LOA) its hard for anything to happen when one is closed off in negativity, because an aspect of negativity is strong attachments and clung to beliefs. Even Gautama, who by all accounts was in a pretty negative frame of mind under that Bodhi Tree, had to let go of everything, including the negativity for realization. But again, I don 't want to over emphasize a positive outlook with regards to realization...and I certainly don't want anyone developing attachments...but a positive attitude rarely hurts or hinders, while a negative outlook very often does. Negativity, in the form of suffering, depression and futility, can be very powerful in bringing about a willingness and sincerity that otherwise might never happen. Sure, but its also something that usually happens as a result of prolonged period of suffering at or near rock bottom....its also not "needed"....are you recommending prolonged periods of depression? I suspect that if you put together a control group of 10 happy folks with a positive outlook, and 10 manically depressed folks with a negative attitude, and gave each of the twenty a personally customized set of meditation practices, the the more positive group will 'progress' much more quickly.
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Post by enigma on Oct 23, 2013 20:51:17 GMT -5
Don't you think everybody would 'embrace joy' if they could? They can....its a choice, a selection ;-) Then why don't they? Maybe we can have a trillion years of joy?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2013 20:52:09 GMT -5
Check this out: content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2074067,00.html the brain is hardwired for positivity and optimism...its a survival thing....its called optimism bias. we are wired so that the "natural state" is generally positive, even irrationally so. It just means that we pretend things are better than they are because it makes us feel betterer. Nobody should be encouraged to do this as it's already self deception. Its the 'natural' state of our body/mind...I'm cool with settling into the natural state ;-)
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Post by enigma on Oct 23, 2013 20:52:41 GMT -5
I guess it depends on eggzacly what one means by that, but in general I say no. Lots of meditators experience bliss, and then lose it, and it pretty much dualistically sucks. Joy is typically defined as the dualistic opposite to sorrow. If you were to refer the Peace that passeth all understandingeth, I would agree. Vigyan Bhairav Tantra: 9. ... suck something and become the sucking.
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