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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 12, 2013 12:53:24 GMT -5
If there is no mystical component to God then why do they say, "when the student is ready the teacher will appear?" That seems mystical to me. Mystical is just a word, a thought, an identification, let such things go if you want to Ripen...the more you know and are knowing, the less ripe you are. Only "don't know" and you cannot fail to ripen. In the pursuit of learning, every day something is acquired. In the pursuit of Tao, every day something is dropped. Less and less is done Until non-action is achieved. When nothing is done, nothing is left undone. The world is run by letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering. ............... The Tao Te Ching chapter 48 by Lao Tsu (translation by Gia-fu Feng and Jane English, 1972) |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 12, 2013 12:55:08 GMT -5
1. If you are ready to let everything go, you are ripe. 2. Try them...see which one feels right. Don't make ripening a goal or an effort....ripening happens when you let go of stuff, not by adding stuff....only don't know, and stay alert without knowing anything, and this is enough. What do you mean by letting everything go?! Does everything include thoughts, experiences, feelings, sounds, smells, tastes, and sights?! ditto previous post |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 12, 2013 13:02:44 GMT -5
Yes....cling to nothing....be completely unattached to whatever appears in your sphere. But mainly, let go of knowing, identifying, and trying to understand everything. Knowing creates the illusion of separateness in Being. Empty your glass of all knowing, and do not seek to refill it. What about the unconscious habits of knowing, identifying, and trying to understand everything... How do I let go of something that I'm not conscious of?! If the unconscious is significant in a specific area, it will manifest in what you think, feel and do. IOW, the tail will wag the dog. So, the unconscious will manifest and show itself. The answer? Observe what you think and feel and do and thus you can/will be conscious of the unconscious. .........and the observing is the letting go.... sdp |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 12, 2013 13:05:28 GMT -5
What about the unconscious habits of knowing, identifying, and trying to understand everything... How do I let go of something that I'm not conscious of?! Alertness brings consciousness to the unconscious....remain alert, and you will see when even the most subtle kinds of knowing arise. There is no need to go searching for hidden forms of knowing to "root them out"....only remain alert in your not knowing, and by and by you will become more sensitive to more subtle forms of knowing that arise....and as they arise from unconsciousness into alert consciousness, release them moment to moment. Don't be concerned with some future possibility of knowing that may arise, just this moment is enough to BE in..... without knowing. By and by the momentum of conscious and unconscious knowing will run out of steam, and come to rest. I'm reading and answering in order. That's perfectly said, what I just posted. sdp |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 12, 2013 13:14:11 GMT -5
Alertness brings consciousness to the unconscious....remain alert, and you will see when even the most subtle kinds of knowing arise, so that they may be let go into not knowing. rising this morning and going into the kitchen to attend a pile of dishes from the girls munchies of late last-night,singing to my self I put the kettle-on oblivious to mindfulness and carried through to make my wife tea instead of coffee. Being busy at the sink soapingnsinging the dishes without thought, just watching... it never dawned upon me that what had been accepted as the norm,had been ascended-from and I gave her abscent mindedly tea instead of coffee,after years of the usual-conditioning. Her nose twitched first,she takes another sip,an another then she withdrew her lips from the mug and began sucking and tasting the remaining contents inside her mouth. Confused, she stands right-in-my-face and asks, "is this tea or coffee?" her taste-buds setting her conditioned mind in disarray. Little things show us the way!  Now that's funny......but absolutely true. Neuroscientists today tell us that all the senses combine to influence each other, plus what the mind expects. Very interesting TV program on either Discovery channel or the Science...or maybe NGEO, Brain Games, a must see. One episode, the color of the drink changes what we taste. Yellow tastes like lemon even when it isn't. ..........You accidentally performed a scientific experiment...... '-) ...... sdp. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 12, 2013 13:28:35 GMT -5
How does one discern if they are 'ripe' or not? Or is this just another after-the-fact determination -- as in, if the fruit fell from the tree it was ripe? How does an unripe soul determine what different method is most useful now? Do these different methods ripen the soul? Maybe the most 'useful' method is the one that comes most naturally, effortlessly. I'd say there are no methods that influence the ripening process. Awakening (i.e. falling off the tree) is not like growing a muscle. The methods applied (and especially how they are applied, the mindset behind it) are just an indicator of the current state of ripeness (i.e. state of being) of the fruit, that's all. Depending on your current state of being you will naturally gravitate to different methods. The question about usefulness is a misconceived one. Mullah Nasser Eddin once lost his keys while on a walk. He proceeded to look for them in an obvious manner, starring at the ground, moving around slowly under a streetlight. A passerby asked him what he was doing, and then proceeded to help him look for his keys. They searched the area for some time and the passerby got exasperated, asked Mullah Nasser Eddin if he was sure that this is where he lost his keys. He replied, oh no, I lost them over there, pointing.....but the light is better here. If you wish to ripen your fruit, don't keep it in a refrigerator. Put it on the windowsill, in the sunlight (edit, in a brown paper bag '-).... There are methods that when applied, help. sdp |
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Post by nowhereman on Oct 12, 2013 13:59:51 GMT -5
rising this morning and going into the kitchen to attend a pile of dishes from the girls munchies of late last-night,singing to my self I put the kettle-on oblivious to mindfulness and carried through to make my wife tea instead of coffee. Being busy at the sink soapingnsinging the dishes without thought, just watching... it never dawned upon me that what had been accepted as the norm,had been ascended-from and I gave her abscent mindedly tea instead of coffee,after years of the usual-conditioning. Her nose twitched first,she takes another sip,an another then she withdrew her lips from the mug and began sucking and tasting the remaining contents inside her mouth. Confused, she stands right-in-my-face and asks, "is this tea or coffee?" her taste-buds setting her conditioned mind in disarray. Little things show us the way! Now that's funny......but absolutely true. Neuroscientists today tell us that all the senses combine to influence each other, plus what the mind expects. Very interesting TV program on either Discovery channel or the Science...or maybe NGEO, Brain Games, a must see. One episode, the color of the drink changes what we taste. Yellow tastes like lemon even when it isn't. ..........You accidentally performed a scientific experiment...... '-) ...... sdp. Only if you have had lemons before |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2013 14:05:35 GMT -5
It's obvious to me that God prefers to keep some things unconscious... Obviously. And obviously God prefers to keep knowledge unconscious... In particular the knowledge that I myself am a miracle of God... Or is he really keeping it unconscious?! |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 12, 2013 14:22:00 GMT -5
Okay so how do you know if your soul is ripe or not? And if not ripe, how do you determine which method is best to ripen it? I actually want to know this, I'm not being contrarian or anything. James Schwartz also mentions in Vedanta the necessity of having a 'prepared mind.' I assume he's talking about the same thing -- ripeness. In Eastern Orthodox Christian monasticism, Hesychasm is a spiritual practice. On the way to Hesychasm is a spiritual practice called The Prayer of the Heart (a form also called the Jesus Prayer). It is a sort of mantra. The long version is, Lord Jesus, Son of God, Savior, have mercy on me a sinner (actually almost made famous by JD Salinger in his short stories). Now, just saying the words is no better than saying Coca Cola, (Coke-A-Cola) as Krishnamurti said. We function all the time merely through conceptual thought. This is a very shallow part of the mind. A short version of the Jesus Prayer is: have mercy on me, or have mercy, or just Jesus. Now, if one merely says the words, there is absolutely zero spiritual practice. Merely saying the words, one's attention is caught up in the words. This is just how we live most of the time, our attention is caught-up-in, absorbed-in, lost-in what we think and say, do and feel. One ceases to be present in thought and deed, we are thought and deed. Behind all methods is working with attention and awareness. Any method that doesn't include the specific use of attention is no better than merely saying Coca Cola. Let's stick with attention, presently. You have to discover (or be specifically told) how to make this distinction between what's really interested attention and directed attention. In interested attention, one's attention goes-in-to whatever one is doing or thinking or feeling, there is no presence. Just play with this a little. If you try to "pay attention" you will find that you almost immediately disappear in-to what you are trying to observe. You become the thought. Then you try again. Now, in the beginning it is best to begin with sensing. You can sense with any of the five senses. Place your hand on your knee, and become aware of the sensation of the index finger on the knee. Find the difference between merely hand on the knee and sensing index finger on the knee. Play with it. When you understand this somewhat, try it with an action, for instance. When you type a post, you are not aware of the pressure of the fingertips on the keyboard. But you can sense this, you can be aware of the sensation of fingers touching the keyboard. Try it. Keep trying until you know the difference between typing mindlessly and noticing the pressure of the fingers on the keyboard. In the same manner one can try to observe one's feelings and one's thoughts. Find the difference between observing one's thoughts or feelings and having one's attention being absorbed in one's thoughts or feelings. This is real method, but simple is not easy. Most people will not even stick with this long enough to tell the difference. Simple is not easy. Hesychasm means silence, interior silence. The true Prayer of the Heart is being present in the saying of the words. The most important part is the presence. Eventually, one is present absent words, thoughts, feelings and actions (this, almost, but not quite, has gone by another name here on ST's in recent posts). This is Hesychasm. Eventually, thoughts, feelings and actions are not an obstruction to the silence within (this has gone by another name here on recent threads and in recent posts). That's not so easy, but possible. It's the bloom of the flower........... sdp |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 12, 2013 14:27:42 GMT -5
Now that's funny......but absolutely true. Neuroscientists today tell us that all the senses combine to influence each other, plus what the mind expects. Very interesting TV program on either Discovery channel or the Science...or maybe NGEO, Brain Games, a must see. One episode, the color of the drink changes what we taste. Yellow tastes like lemon even when it isn't. ..........You accidentally performed a scientific experiment...... '-) ...... sdp. Only if you have had lemons before Truly. sdp |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 12, 2013 14:34:49 GMT -5
And obviously God prefers to keep knowledge unconscious... In particular the knowledge that I myself am a miracle of God... Or is he really keeping it unconscious?! Well........God has made us self-developing organisms. We are essentially seeds. A "seed" is "unconscious" while it remains a seed, but a seed is made to cease to be a seed. In ceasing to be a seed, it germinates and grows into the plant it was designed to be. But most of us (maybe not those here) are content to remain seeds, we'd rather not-die. We can choose to stay a seed (remain unconscious) or try to awaken, germinate the kernel within. sdp |
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Post by enigma on Oct 12, 2013 15:34:28 GMT -5
Only by becoming conscious of it.  It's obvious to me that God prefers to keep some things unconscious... Absotively. |
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Post by enigma on Oct 12, 2013 15:40:51 GMT -5
What about the unconscious habits of knowing, identifying, and trying to understand everything... How do I let go of something that I'm not conscious of?! If the unconscious is significant in a specific area, it will manifest in what you think, feel and do. IOW, the tail will wag the dog. So, the unconscious will manifest and show itself. The answer? Observe what you think and feel and do and thus you can/will be conscious of the unconscious. .........and the observing is the letting go.... sdp Yes, it's part of what I refer to as 'noticing', and there isn't something that needs to be done with it. No practices, techniques, methods, paths, turning away, stopping momentum, controlling thoughts. Just notice, and let the noticing take care of the rest. |
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Post by tzujanli on Oct 12, 2013 16:01:24 GMT -5
Greetings.. If the unconscious is significant in a specific area, it will manifest in what you think, feel and do. IOW, the tail will wag the dog. So, the unconscious will manifest and show itself. The answer? Observe what you think and feel and do and thus you can/will be conscious of the unconscious. .........and the observing is the letting go.... sdp Yes, it's part of what I refer to as 'noticing', and there isn't something that needs to be done with it. No practices, techniques, methods, paths, turning away, stopping momentum, controlling thoughts. Just notice, and let the noticing take care of the rest. If you understood that, you wouldn't need to fit what is noticed to your definition of 'oneness'.. the noticing is sufficient, it informs us of what is.. Be well.. |
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Post by enigma on Oct 12, 2013 16:56:07 GMT -5
And obviously God prefers to keep knowledge unconscious... In particular the knowledge that I myself am a miracle of God... Or is he really keeping it unconscious?! Yes, unconsciousness is quite purposeful. Only God can lie to himself and get away with it. Hehe. |
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