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Post by silver on Oct 10, 2013 21:46:14 GMT -5
I thought nondual stuff was all about the impersonal.
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Post by nowhereman on Oct 10, 2013 21:53:53 GMT -5
I thought nondual stuff was all about the impersonal. Not at all that's the neo advaita take of it. In real Advaita it's very personal as that is where you start from. There's no free lunch nor short cuts. One needs to walk the talk. Now in the highest absolute truth that comes from the Self pov only then yes it's impersonal since there is no person only one but you are a person with a body/mind/ego so that is what you work with if you wish to progress.
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Post by silver on Oct 11, 2013 11:19:50 GMT -5
I thought nondual stuff was all about the impersonal. Not at all that's the neo advaita take of it. In real Advaita it's very personal as that is where you start from. There's no free lunch nor short cuts. One needs to walk the talk. Now in the highest absolute truth that comes from the Self pov only then yes it's impersonal since there is no person only one but you are a person with a body/mind/ego so that is what you work with if you wish to progress. I sense the smart ones know we're in trouble when the plethora of beliefs and philosophies are so many, that it creates nothing but a massive cloud of confusion. I don't like confusion. In this sense, I like the idea of the One Big Dog who barks loudly, getting everybody's attention. Trouble is, we're stuck with just stories about the One Big Dog handed down --- so, I don't care much anymore about all the words, that's why the Bible said "In the beginning was The Word." *muttley snicker* gooood morning, everybody
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Post by silver on Oct 11, 2013 11:47:03 GMT -5
Yeah, something has turned in me, because I used to believe...follow along with the ol' forgiveness routine.
I thought maybe I'd feel different about it this morning...see it back the way I used to, but nope, this change is here now, anyway...don't know how long it may stay.
I can't help but feel like forgiveness is just part of a larger fairytale.
I mean, as I said yesterday, the world will keep on turnin', sh*t will keep on happening - to those who forgive, and those who don't.
I don't doubt that there's some other way of looking at things, that has the same effect as 'forgiveness', tbh.
And, as acewall said, honesty's a good thing - or something like that.
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Post by tzujanli on Oct 11, 2013 12:29:56 GMT -5
Greetings..
Forgiveness means it never happened..
Be well..
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Post by silver on Oct 11, 2013 12:35:51 GMT -5
Greetings.. Forgiveness means it never happened.. Be well.. I can see it if someone accidentally steps on someone's toes in a crowded place, but not big stuff, like a drunk driver kills your loved one(s) and stuff like that. Oh yeah, it can be forgiven, but obviously it did happen...
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Post by Beingist on Oct 11, 2013 15:22:08 GMT -5
Greetings.. Forgiveness means it never happened.. Be well.. I can see it if someone accidentally steps on someone's toes in a crowded place, but not big stuff, like a drunk driver kills your loved one(s) and stuff like that. Oh yeah, it can be forgiven, but obviously it did happen... I'm sure he's not being literal with that comment, Ag.
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Post by silver on Oct 11, 2013 15:46:43 GMT -5
I can see it if someone accidentally steps on someone's toes in a crowded place, but not big stuff, like a drunk driver kills your loved one(s) and stuff like that. Oh yeah, it can be forgiven, but obviously it did happen... I'm sure he's not being literal with that comment, Ag. Very possible...then it doesn't make sense to me. When one is taking up some sort of self-defense classes, whether it be Aikido, Boxing or any other type, it's a very simple idea, to defend one's self - I think that defending one's self psychically (mentally and emotionally) makes perfect sense, too. How does that fit in with your notion of forgiveness? Or don't you think you should defend yourself in all ways?
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Post by Beingist on Oct 11, 2013 16:11:19 GMT -5
I'm sure he's not being literal with that comment, Ag. Very possible...then it doesn't make sense to me. When one is taking up some sort of self-defense classes, whether it be Aikido, Boxing or any other type, it's a very simple idea, to defend one's self - I think that defending one's self psychically (mentally and emotionally) makes perfect sense, too. How does that fit in with your notion of forgiveness? Or don't you think you should defend yourself in all ways? That goes back to the question (albeit misconceived, to some), 'what is there to defend?' Again, it's a letting go of the belief in the self. Without that, there's really nothing to defend.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2013 16:33:07 GMT -5
Yeah, something has turned in me, because I used to believe...follow along with the ol' forgiveness routine. I thought maybe I'd feel different about it this morning...see it back the way I used to, but nope, this change is here now, anyway...don't know how long it may stay. I can't help but feel like forgiveness is just part of a larger fairytale. I mean, as I said yesterday, the world will keep on turnin', sh*t will keep on happening - to those who forgive, and those who don't. I don't doubt that there's some other way of looking at things, that has the same effect as 'forgiveness', tbh. And, as acewall said, honesty's a good thing - or something like that. Forgiveness is something you do for you, not the world, or the person that you are forgiving. Unforgiveness is a clinging, a grasping, that in some ways imprisons you. It is an attachment to something you dislike that you are maintaining all by yourself. Forgiving is a letting go of an attachment that you yourself are creating and maintaining to something unpleasant.
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Post by silver on Oct 11, 2013 16:58:09 GMT -5
Yeah, something has turned in me, because I used to believe...follow along with the ol' forgiveness routine. I thought maybe I'd feel different about it this morning...see it back the way I used to, but nope, this change is here now, anyway...don't know how long it may stay. I can't help but feel like forgiveness is just part of a larger fairytale. I mean, as I said yesterday, the world will keep on turnin', sh*t will keep on happening - to those who forgive, and those who don't. I don't doubt that there's some other way of looking at things, that has the same effect as 'forgiveness', tbh. And, as acewall said, honesty's a good thing - or something like that. Forgiveness is something you do for you, not the world, or the person that you are forgiving. Unforgiveness is a clinging, a grasping, that in some ways imprisons you. It is an attachment to something you dislike that you are maintaining all by yourself. Forgiving is a letting go of an attachment that you yourself are creating and maintaining to something unpleasant. Okay. But see, there are other ways of looking at situations that may or may not 'require' consideration of forgiving somebody. Life can be lived in a reasonable way without it, but that doesn't mean that the person is unforgiving - they just don't necessarily make anything of it -- which gives plenty of room for allowances for self-defense. Users create their own track record, so maybe it's common sense for many to watch out for users, but those who end up getting used are the ones who 'need' to forgive. And that's just one type of situation that seems, for some, to require forgiveness.
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Post by silver on Oct 11, 2013 16:59:23 GMT -5
Very possible...then it doesn't make sense to me. When one is taking up some sort of self-defense classes, whether it be Aikido, Boxing or any other type, it's a very simple idea, to defend one's self - I think that defending one's self psychically (mentally and emotionally) makes perfect sense, too. How does that fit in with your notion of forgiveness? Or don't you think you should defend yourself in all ways? That goes back to the question (albeit misconceived, to some), 'what is there to defend?' Again, it's a letting go of the belief in the self. Without that, there's really nothing to defend. For me, that notion of no person isn't going to happen anytime soon, if ever.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Oct 11, 2013 17:13:09 GMT -5
I don't understand all this forgiveness business.
I never forget and I never forgive. For me people are not like I am, instead they are things. It makes no sense to forgive something to a thing. So if someone betrays me then first I need proof that this person has changed its behaviour and then maybe I will change my attitude toward it. But words are not enough for this, words like "please, thanks and sorry" mean nothing to me.
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Post by silver on Oct 11, 2013 17:41:50 GMT -5
I don't understand all this forgiveness business. I never forget and I never forgive. For me people are not like I am, instead they are things. It makes no sense to forgive something to a thing. So if someone betrays me then first I need proof that this person has changed its behaviour and then maybe I will change my attitude toward it. But words are not enough for this, words like "please, thanks and sorry" mean nothing to me. Horses and other animals are like that too -- which is a good thing. We can learn a very simple, easy way to be from them. I guess I'm somewhere in the middle. Depending on the individual horse/animal, they too can 'forgive' IF their owners or new owners show them consistently reasonable behavior.
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Post by nowhereman on Oct 11, 2013 20:10:49 GMT -5
Forgiveness has many layers. If you are not able to forgive others you are not able to forgive yourself. Basically without forgiveness your spiritual path stops. There is no work around for forgiveness you must pass through the gate of forgiveness to see any real progress on the spiritual path. In truth it all distills down to forgiving yourself which many seekers have problems with hence they avoid any kind of forgiveness. The ego has big issues in the area of forgiveness to truly forgive a humble heart is normally necessary. Of course these are only my opinions but opinions hard earned through much pain and loss in life so they do have value again imo Nowhereman
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