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Post by nowhereman on Oct 9, 2013 23:28:26 GMT -5
Here's my take
Nowhereman
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Post by silver on Oct 9, 2013 23:49:52 GMT -5
Forgiveness is some tricky stuff.
I don't know the whole story there, but when grown-ups use, abuse and deeply affect young people and others who are in a position of vulnerability.......all I can say is that forgiveness is not the whole schtick. You can no longer do business with people who have done that much mindless taking - they are criminals of the worst kind.
Forgiveness is for saints. Not human beings. It's make-believe.
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Post by nowhereman on Oct 10, 2013 17:06:49 GMT -5
Forgiveness is some tricky stuff. I don't know the whole story there, but when grown-ups use, abuse and deeply affect young people and others who are in a position of vulnerability.......all I can say is that forgiveness is not the whole schtick. You can no longer do business with people who have done that much mindless taking - they are criminals of the worst kind. Forgiveness is for saints. Not human beings. It's make-believe. Not really. The video impressed me because I did the same many years ago and it worked a miracle for me. I grew up with a very abusive father both physically and emotionally. He began beating me when I was only 2. I won't go into the details except to say I had a hard time growing up. Years passed and when I was in my late 30's I got a call from my Mom that Dad had cancer and was in the hospital dying. I got on a plane and when I arrive at the hospital just seeing him so helpless in that bed created a deep sadness in me as to see him suffer so. I went up to my dad in his bed and told him how sorry I was for his pain and then I said something I will never forget. I said you know Dad there are probably somethings we can talk about now but before we do I just want to ask you to forgive me for whatever I did as a kid that made you act the way you did towards me. Well I tell you the moment I said those words my Dad teared up and said I love you son I have my son back. I will never forget that moment. You see I let me Dad off the hook and in doing so our relationship for the little time that was left was completely changed. I am know Saint by any means but such forgiveness can really do miracles. Nowhereman
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Post by Beingist on Oct 10, 2013 18:54:25 GMT -5
Forgiveness is some tricky stuff. I don't know the whole story there, but when grown-ups use, abuse and deeply affect young people and others who are in a position of vulnerability.......all I can say is that forgiveness is not the whole schtick. You can no longer do business with people who have done that much mindless taking - they are criminals of the worst kind. Forgiveness is for saints. Not human beings. It's make-believe. Gonna disagree with you on this one, Ag. Forgiveness is all about letting go--letting go of the self, of beliefs, of preconceived notions about how things are supposed to work, and how people should act. It don't take no saint. It just takes the willingness. Edit: great thread topic, btw.
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Post by nowhereman on Oct 10, 2013 19:01:06 GMT -5
Forgiveness is some tricky stuff. I don't know the whole story there, but when grown-ups use, abuse and deeply affect young people and others who are in a position of vulnerability.......all I can say is that forgiveness is not the whole schtick. You can no longer do business with people who have done that much mindless taking - they are criminals of the worst kind. Forgiveness is for saints. Not human beings. It's make-believe. Gonna disagree with you on this one, Ag. Forgiveness is all about letting go--letting go of the self, of beliefs, of preconceived notions about how things are supposed to work, and how people should act. It don't take no saint. It just takes the willingness. Edit: great thread topic, btw. Yes that's it exactly. I had no expectations nor even thought of what the outcome would be when I said those words to my father and what a true joy it was. Thank you for your comment Nowhereman
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Post by Beingist on Oct 10, 2013 19:03:24 GMT -5
Gonna disagree with you on this one, Ag. Forgiveness is all about letting go--letting go of the self, of beliefs, of preconceived notions about how things are supposed to work, and how people should act. It don't take no saint. It just takes the willingness. Edit: great thread topic, btw. Yes that's it exactly. I had no expectations nor even thought of what the outcome would be when I said those words to my father and what a true joy it was. Thank you for your comment Nowhereman ... and thanks for your post above, NWM.
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Post by silver on Oct 10, 2013 19:04:20 GMT -5
Yeah, I used to struggle with the idea of forgiveness, but in the back of my mind I just thought what is the point.
Nowadays, it just seems impractical and sappy, but I am one of the most emo people I know, so go figure. I sure can't. I think that the issue sometimes for some can be such that it just doesn't even matter after the young one / victim has managed to muddle through on their own and make it a ways down the road of life, for better or worse.
My _____ is just going to have to live without it and all I can do / feel is shrug.
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Post by Beingist on Oct 10, 2013 19:09:51 GMT -5
Yeah, I used to struggle with the idea of forgiveness, but in the back of my mind I just thought what is the point. Nowadays, it just seems impractical and sappy, but I am one of the most emo people I know, so go figure. I sure can't. I think that the issue sometimes for some can be such that it just doesn't even matter after the young one / victim has managed to muddle through on their own and make it a ways down the road of life, for better or worse. My _____ is just going to have to live without it and all I can do / feel is shrug. I think your definition of 'forgiveness' is the standard one, which I think is a misnomer. The term 'forgiveness', per se, usually implies that a 'wrong' has been committed. Real forgiveness, as we discuss it here, recognizes that nothing 'wrong' ever happened. Personally, I have much less a problem with forgiving others, than I do with forgiving myself.
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Post by silver on Oct 10, 2013 20:02:46 GMT -5
Ive been over this ground, and other aspects of human 'relationships' and if there's no people, then what is there to forgiving? Nothing, that I can figure -- now, this is the one thing that works out to a 'T' regards nonduality. As many here are wont to say: it is what it is.
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Post by silver on Oct 10, 2013 20:10:04 GMT -5
I do understand about just forgiving and forgiving -- because it's just gonna keep on happening.
The real question is, when (if it happens - which I suspect it does - has to) do we, in our hearts and minds slip across the line, into apathy?
From a breaking story on AOL news.
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Post by acewall on Oct 10, 2013 20:12:16 GMT -5
I do understand about just forgiving and forgiving -- because it's just gonna keep on happening. The real question is, when (if it happens - which I suspect it does - has to) do we, in our hearts and minds slip across the line, into apathy? From a breaking story on AOL news. UGLY-shit
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Post by acewall on Oct 10, 2013 20:16:06 GMT -5
everyone has different meanings due to each having different conditioning within their different minds. Non-forgiving, arrests the life-flow and conceals the light within being found when looking inwards as memory is like a wad of compressed tissue paper dunked in glue.(dense)
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Post by silver on Oct 10, 2013 20:17:56 GMT -5
everyone has different meanings due to each having different conditioning within their different minds. Non-forgiving, arrests the life-flow and conceals the light within being found when looking inwards as memory is like a wad of compressed tissue paper dunked in glue.(dense) You really should try it sometime, this non-forgiving thing - you may not understand it...until you actually try it. You either do or you don't, but we don't exist, anyway, so what of it.
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Post by acewall on Oct 10, 2013 20:19:40 GMT -5
everyone has different meanings due to each having different conditioning within their different minds. Non-forgiving, arrests the life-flow and conceals the light within being found when looking inwards as memory is like a wad of compressed tissue paper dunked in glue.(dense) You really should try it sometime, this non-forgiving thing - you may not understand it...until you actually try it. You either do or you don't, but we don't exist, anyway, so what of it. if ppl dont exist, who is there to try-it out as yourself is suggesting?
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Post by silver on Oct 10, 2013 20:22:24 GMT -5
Tears are gonna flow, if we forgive, or not The wind will blow among all the forget-me-nots.
Planets will spin, Thunder make din, There is nothing holding ___ back.
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