|
Post by enigma on Sept 27, 2013 9:58:34 GMT -5
Instead of self dissolving, it appears to be replicating. It's some kind of funny forum glitch. It usually doesn't show deleted or invisible accounts. He really had 4 different accounts in the last 24 hours. This incident also shows us the power of a pure desire in deliberate creation. I was just wondering with a still mind how many accounts Steve was using in the last 24 hours. That was all. There was no need to know involved. That has all been released before I even logged in here today in total peace. There was just absolute faith in the infinite possibilities of answers the vast and mostly impersonal intelligence of the universal Mind could deliver. And just look, with how much ease and humor the universe delivered the correct answer almost immediately in a very personal way. 'Universal Mind' also has a playful energy to it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2013 11:04:38 GMT -5
It's some kind of funny forum glitch. It usually doesn't show deleted or invisible accounts. He really had 4 different accounts in the last 24 hours. This incident also shows us the power of a pure desire in deliberate creation. I was just wondering with a still mind how many accounts Steve was using in the last 24 hours. That was all. There was no need to know involved. That has all been released before I even logged in here today in total peace. There was just absolute faith in the infinite possibilities of answers the vast and mostly impersonal intelligence of the universal Mind could deliver. And just look, with how much ease and humor the universe delivered the correct answer almost immediately in a very personal way. 'Universal Mind' also has a playful energy to it. :-)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2013 11:06:12 GMT -5
Instead of self dissolving, it appears to be replicating. It's some kind of funny forum glitch. It usually doesn't show deleted or invisible accounts. He really had 4 different accounts in the last 24 hours. This incident also shows us the power of a pure desire in deliberate creation. I was just wondering with a still mind how many accounts Steve was using in the last 24 hours. That was all. There was no need to know involved. That has all been released before I even logged in here today in total peace. There was just absolute faith in the infinite possibilities of answers the vast and mostly impersonal intelligence of the universal Mind could deliver. And just look, with how much ease and humor the universe delivered the correct answer almost immediately in a very personal way. Its very nice what you've written there Reefs :-)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2013 11:21:15 GMT -5
Yeah. I'm not the only one that has landed in this forum with a little intoxication in 'em. And I am a little partial to a deactivation or two myself. Though to be deleting and recreating accounts, like this is what truly integrated folks do, is beyond me. <sigmundy> My observation so far is that he is emotionally very unstable. He usually deletes his accounts when he is upset. Sometimes he just comes back to add a couple of pot shots and then is gone again. But mostly he stays a little longer and has something on topic to say. It seems he's trying a fresh start with every new account. Very split-mindish. </sigmundy> Yeah, it's like he can't put out his own fire. So rather than learn how to turn his own tap on, he's using the 'delete account' button instead.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2013 11:56:45 GMT -5
<sigmundy> My observation so far is that he is emotionally very unstable. He usually deletes his accounts when he is upset. Sometimes he just comes back to add a couple of pot shots and then is gone again. But mostly he stays a little longer and has something on topic to say. It seems he's trying a fresh start with every new account. Very split-mindish. </sigmundy> Yeah, it's like he can't put out his own fire. So rather than learn how to turn his own tap on, he's using the 'delete account' button instead.I think its just an example of how believing ones imaginations can lead to peculiar responses
|
|
|
Post by nowhereman on Sept 27, 2013 16:46:45 GMT -5
Here's wisdom Ramana Maharshi : Even from the beginning. Even though one practises kevala nirvikalpa samadhi for years together, if one has not rooted out the vasanas one will not attain liberation.
Samadhi is just another experience it is not liberation and as Advaita so aptly teaches your vasanas have to be worked out if not you are still chasing and seeking.
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Sept 27, 2013 17:03:30 GMT -5
Here's wisdom Ramana Maharshi : Even from the beginning. Even though one practises kevala nirvikalpa samadhi for years together, if one has not rooted out the vasanas one will not attain liberation. Samadhi is just another experience it is not liberation and as Advaita so aptly teaches your vasanas have to be worked out if not you are still chasing and seeking. Yes. (Cool Giraffe girif.)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2013 17:35:40 GMT -5
Here's wisdom Ramana Maharshi : Even from the beginning. Even though one practises kevala nirvikalpa samadhi for years together, if one has not rooted out the vasanas one will not attain liberation. Samadhi is just another experience it is not liberation and as Advaita so aptly teaches your vasanas have to be worked out if not you are still chasing and seeking. Yes. (Cool Giraffe girif.) Would you like to reopen the discussion?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2013 17:45:44 GMT -5
Here's wisdom Ramana Maharshi : Even from the beginning. Even though one practises kevala nirvikalpa samadhi for years together, if one has not rooted out the vasanas one will not attain liberation. Samadhi is just another experience it is not liberation and as Advaita so aptly teaches your vasanas have to be worked out if not you are still chasing and seeking. We were discussing just that here: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/post/153033in context that quote from Ramana is saying that Sahaja Samadhi is the only true liberation, and that no matter how much one is experiencing Nirvikalpa Samadhi or Savikalpa Samadhi, one will not attain the total loss of self into Sahaja Samadhi (permanent and effortless Samadhi) until one clears the Vasanas. Ramana, nor Advaita Vedanta is saying that Samadhi is "just another experience", on the contrary, Permanent and Effortless Samadhi is the only true liberation according to both Ramana, and Advaita Vedanta in general. What they ARE saying, is that Samadhi will always only be temporary until one clears the Vasanas. Clearing the Vasanas is a means to attain Sahaja Samadhi... My own personal experience is that opening into Samadhi (both Nirvikalpa and Savikalpa), get easier with frequency, and that frequent meditation and Samadhi do a lot of clearing of the Vasanas...it's kinda like a circle, wherein Meditation and Samadhi help to clear the Vasanas, and the more the Vasanas are cleared, the more Samadhi increases in depth, duration, and effortlessness. This is especially true when one brings meditation and Samadhi into everyday living and activities....i.e. when they are integrated into all of life's activities so to speak.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2013 18:00:43 GMT -5
Yeah. I'm not the only one that has landed in this forum with a little intoxication in 'em. And I am a little partial to a deactivation or two myself. Though to be deleting and recreating accounts, like this is what truly integrated folks do, is beyond me. <sigmundy> My observation so far is that he is emotionally very unstable. He usually deletes his accounts when he is upset. Sometimes he just comes back to add a couple of pot shots and then is gone again. But mostly he stays a little longer and has something on topic to say. It seems he's trying a fresh start with every new account. Very split-mindish. </sigmundy> Can you point to any recent posts or anything that I've written here recently that are indicative of emotional instability? As an aside, it seems like one might ask another WHY they frequently delete their account, versus this imaginary conjecture... That is, if one were actually interested in learning or exploring something, versus clinging very strongly to a set of beliefs and opinions in such a way that all one is really trying to do is find facts and form opinions that supports one's clung to existing beliefs :-) You have questioned my credibility lately, which I have no interest in having a conversation about, except to say that one of the things I've learned over the years as an analyst, is that when information supports what a person wants to believe and supports them continuing to do what they already want to do, they ALWAYS find the information credible, even when it is obviously not. And on the other side of the coin, when information does not support what one already believes, or when it does not support what one already wants to do, they ALWAYS find the information un-credible, along with the information provider, even when ALL evidence supports the credibility of the information. What beliefs is what I am saying here challenging for you, and why are you clinging to those beliefs?
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Sept 27, 2013 18:01:33 GMT -5
Yes. (Cool Giraffe girif.) Would you like to reopen the discussion? I didn't know we closed it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2013 18:08:11 GMT -5
Would you like to reopen the discussion? I didn't know we closed it. Did I mis-interpret what you said in that last paragraph here: 20 hours ago Quote Post by enigma on 20 hours ago 21 hours ago steve said: 22 hours ago enigma said: I'm curious how you would interpret the underlined. What exactly does that involve? Steve: Haha....That part caught me too....I figured you'd catch onto that bit my friend. Vasana in the Advaita Vedanta context in which Ramana speaks is is the habitual desires and movements of the mind...its kinda like the momentum and direction that mind builds. I read a good analogy on Vasanas that went something like this: If you put a bit of red jelly on a table, and then very slowly pour warm water over it, you will get these little red streams of water flowing away from the jelly...if you increase the flow slightly the already formed stream of fluid will increase in its height and width, but it will still follow the same course....That is like Vasanas Vasanas are the momentum and inertia that the mind has built up, usually expressing themselves as the desires that arise from habitual mind patterns. Someone here made a good analogy in saying that we appear to make choices, but in reality we always choose based on an innate and conditioned set of preferences....those inherent preferences that move us in habitual patterns in a kind of continously flowing momentum can be said to be Vasanas. Ramana's method of clearing the Vasanas was to utterly surrender to death over and over and over and years of nirvikalpa and savikalpa samadhi....basically he sat on a mountain Surrendering everything and entering Samadhi until there was no Vasanas left. My own method, which is obviously a work in progress, is to let go of all truths and knowledge as they arise, and surrender everything to God's will, in concert with remaining in Samadhi as much and as often as I can. In a nod to "your" method, noticing that things are not true can be, but is not always a good method of undoing the momentum of the Vasanas... :-) Realization is Very helpful in releasing the Vasanas. But as I stated awhile back...realization is a means not an end, in that it clears away vasanas, and opens the way for constant and effortless state of Sahaja Samadhi, which, as Ramana describes it, is the only real liberation. I find liberation to be a good word fir it, but God Union resonates more with this little wave over here :-) My experience is that the more one meditates and opens into Samadhi, the more realization occurs, which clears away vasanas, which in in turn rids the self of its self perpetuation and clears the way for permanent and constant Samadhi, versus the temporary version that comes and goes because the vasanas keep re-asserting themselves. Whats your experience on that underlined bit? Enigma: I accept that there's more than one way to skin the Vasana cat, and so I can accept that there is a mind path, which involves a purification of mind through insight, clarity and understanding, and a devotional path, of which Samadhi may well be a very useful part. I don't have, and never have had, an issue with those very different approaches, and so I believe I understand why you see Samadhi leading to realization, while I see that most likely the reverse occurs. (Realizations of some stripe generally leading to spiritual experiences of some kind) Those differences may be more about how realization is approached than how it actually occurs. Hencely, I'll stop beating you over the head for chasing woo woo experiences if you'll stop beating me over the head for being 'absorbed in mind'. .Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/3075/interesting-discussion-thread?page=40#ixzz2g8ZrkS2p
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Sept 27, 2013 18:18:41 GMT -5
Here's wisdom Ramana Maharshi : Even from the beginning. Even though one practises kevala nirvikalpa samadhi for years together, if one has not rooted out the vasanas one will not attain liberation. Samadhi is just another experience it is not liberation and as Advaita so aptly teaches your vasanas have to be worked out if not you are still chasing and seeking. We were discussing just that here: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/post/153033in context that quote from Ramana is saying that Sahaja Samadhi is the only true liberation, and that no matter how much one is experiencing Nirvikalpa Samadhi or Savikalpa Samadhi, one will not attain the total loss of self into Sahaja Samadhi (permanent and effortless Samadhi) until one clears the Vasanas. Ramana, nor Advaita Vedanta is saying that Samadhi is "just another experience", on the contrary, Permanent and Effortless Samadhi is the only true liberation according to both Ramana, and Advaita Vedanta in general. What they ARE saying, is that Samadhi will always only be temporary until one clears the Vasanas. Clearing the Vasanas is a means to attain Sahaja Samadhi... My own personal experience is that opening into Samadhi (both Nirvikalpa and Savikalpa), get easier with frequency, and that frequent meditation and Samadhi do a lot of clearing of the Vasanas...it's kinda like a circle, wherein Meditation and Samadhi help to clear the Vasanas, and the more the Vasanas are cleared, the more Samadhi increases in depth, duration, and effortlessness. This is especially true when one brings meditation and Samadhi into everyday living and activities....i.e. when they are integrated into all of life's activities so to speak. "There is a difference between the enlightenment of sam?dhi and self-realization. When a person achieves enlightenment, that person starts doing tapas to realize the self." Samadhi vs Self realization
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Sept 27, 2013 18:20:25 GMT -5
I didn't know we closed it. Did I mis-interpret what you said in that last paragraph here:20 hours ago Quote Post by enigma on 20 hours ago 21 hours ago steve said: 22 hours ago enigma said: I'm curious how you would interpret the underlined. What exactly does that involve? Steve: Haha....That part caught me too....I figured you'd catch onto that bit my friend. Vasana in the Advaita Vedanta context in which Ramana speaks is is the habitual desires and movements of the mind...its kinda like the momentum and direction that mind builds. I read a good analogy on Vasanas that went something like this: If you put a bit of red jelly on a table, and then very slowly pour warm water over it, you will get these little red streams of water flowing away from the jelly...if you increase the flow slightly the already formed stream of fluid will increase in its height and width, but it will still follow the same course....That is like Vasanas Vasanas are the momentum and inertia that the mind has built up, usually expressing themselves as the desires that arise from habitual mind patterns. Someone here made a good analogy in saying that we appear to make choices, but in reality we always choose based on an innate and conditioned set of preferences....those inherent preferences that move us in habitual patterns in a kind of continously flowing momentum can be said to be Vasanas. Ramana's method of clearing the Vasanas was to utterly surrender to death over and over and over and years of nirvikalpa and savikalpa samadhi....basically he sat on a mountain Surrendering everything and entering Samadhi until there was no Vasanas left. My own method, which is obviously a work in progress, is to let go of all truths and knowledge as they arise, and surrender everything to God's will, in concert with remaining in Samadhi as much and as often as I can. In a nod to "your" method, noticing that things are not true can be, but is not always a good method of undoing the momentum of the Vasanas... :-) Realization is Very helpful in releasing the Vasanas. But as I stated awhile back...realization is a means not an end, in that it clears away vasanas, and opens the way for constant and effortless state of Sahaja Samadhi, which, as Ramana describes it, is the only real liberation. I find liberation to be a good word fir it, but God Union resonates more with this little wave over here :-) My experience is that the more one meditates and opens into Samadhi, the more realization occurs, which clears away vasanas, which in in turn rids the self of its self perpetuation and clears the way for permanent and constant Samadhi, versus the temporary version that comes and goes because the vasanas keep re-asserting themselves. Whats your experience on that underlined bit? Enigma: I accept that there's more than one way to skin the Vasana cat, and so I can accept that there is a mind path, which involves a purification of mind through insight, clarity and understanding, and a devotional path, of which Samadhi may well be a very useful part. I don't have, and never have had, an issue with those very different approaches, and so I believe I understand why you see Samadhi leading to realization, while I see that most likely the reverse occurs. (Realizations of some stripe generally leading to spiritual experiences of some kind) Those differences may be more about how realization is approached than how it actually occurs. Hencely, I'll stop beating you over the head for chasing woo woo experiences if you'll stop beating me over the head for being 'absorbed in mind'. .Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/3075/interesting-discussion-thread?page=40#ixzz2g8ZrkS2pI don't know. How did you interpret it?
|
|
|
Post by nowhereman on Sept 27, 2013 18:20:38 GMT -5
Steve I disagree you are mixing Samadhi which is a experience no matter how rare or highten you may find it to be with Liberation they are not the same at all. Ramana never said that any Samadhi including Sahaja(the natural one) was Liberation. Clearing the Vasanas is required for Liberation but again it's not any Samadhi.
As long as one is clinging to any type of Samadhi and or experience then they are still chasing and seeking. The idea that if I work at this long enough I will finally get there comes from feeling you are lacking something and are not complete just as you are. This idea of lacking will always keep the seeker a seeker. Liberation is simply this knowing beyond any doubt that you never lacked anything. In Vedanta it's simply known as understanding but it's a very subtle understanding not of the mind.
Peace nowhereman
|
|