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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2013 18:32:13 GMT -5
Clearly if you did you would stop doing it. But as they say love is blind so you continue to do it until and hopefully you get a divorce from it.There is a lot more to life than Samadhi. Sorry but like any kind of addiction the one addicted never see themselves as being addicted. It's just the way it is my friend. Yes, he is in love, but maybe it's okay. One could do worse than to have a love affair with God. :-) thats what I was trying to communicate with this post: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/post/154697
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Post by nowhereman on Oct 5, 2013 18:44:17 GMT -5
Depends what you tried and how good the sitter was trained. Not drugs but plants. The Soma spoken actually in the Vedas is such a one but most people have no idea what it is. I do as it is a combination of plants and will bring you right into Samadhi. When I lived in India for a couple of years I spent sometime with a Agorha Naga master but that's another time and story I am familiar with what you speak. I have the recipe for the indian version someplace. In south america they use different plants to brew the DMT, but ayausca tea is fundamentally the same as Soma. And not the same as Samadhi. The Soma Rasa is a means, not Samadhi, just like sitting Zazen and doing the breathing and concentrating techniques ;-) No you are not very familiar. ayausca needs a catalyst with DMT to work and it's very different than Soma in India. You have no recipe for the Soma spoken of because it's all handed down orally. Plus if anyone ever written down what goes into Soma it would be too vague to understand. Yes Soma will bring you into full on Samadhi with none of your senses dulled.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2013 18:57:41 GMT -5
I am familiar with what you speak. I have the recipe for the indian version someplace. In south america they use different plants to brew the DMT, but ayausca tea is fundamentally the same as Soma. And not the same as Samadhi. The Soma Rasa is a means, not Samadhi, just like sitting Zazen and doing the breathing and concentrating techniques ;-) No you are not very familiar. ayausca needs a catalyst with DMT to work and it's very different than Soma in India. You have no recipe for the Soma spoken of because it's all handed down orally. Plus if anyone ever written down what goes into Soma it would be too vague to understand. Yes Soma will bring you into full on Samadhi with none of your senses dulled. Its not VERY different, its just less harsh because the alkyliod catalyst is less harsh, it usually make use of ephedra as the alkyliod, it also generally a lesser concentration of DMT....additionally, you said it right when you said the "sitter" plays a big role....the drug itself does not produce Samadhi alone.... If simoly taking a drug produced Samadhi, it'd be a VERY popular drug ;-) In any case, using a drug in combonation with other practices to open into Samadhi is not affectively different than sitting Zazen and using soecific breath techniques....the means ate largely irrelevant, and also, only really needed by the novice. The means are not the Samadhi ;-) You might just as easily wrote that "All one has to do is sit Zazen and breath correctly with the right focus and enter Samadhi" as you wrote "all one has to do is take a drug with the right guide to enter Samadhi" The means that an individual uses to release the knower into the known, or uniting the subjective and objective, do not say anything about the state of Samadhi, they say something about the means....which are widely varied...and do not have to be complicated or difficult. Whether Samadhi occurs as a result of a drug/meditation combo, meditation and breath control combo, or just sitting silently and alertly while letting go of all "knowing" is not the point....and the "means" do not diminish the UNION. As an aside, one can fairly safely make their own Ayausca, but should not attempt to make Soma without some advanced chemistry knowledge, because while it is not as heavy in DMT, there are other alkaloids that can be a byproduct that can kill you...just getting the concentration of ephedra too high in Soma can be very dangerous. Having said that, the general recipe for for Soma can be found, though either centuries of oral tradition OR a good understanding of biochemistry is needed to do it safely.
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Post by nowhereman on Oct 5, 2013 19:19:37 GMT -5
No you are not very familiar. ayausca needs a catalyst with DMT to work and it's very different than Soma in India. You have no recipe for the Soma spoken of because it's all handed down orally. Plus if anyone ever written down what goes into Soma it would be too vague to understand. Yes Soma will bring you into full on Samadhi with none of your senses dulled. Its not VERY different, its just less harsh because the alkyliod catalyst is less harsh, it usually make use of ephedra as the alkyliod, it also generally a lesser concentration of DMT....additionally, you said it right when you said the "sitter" plays a big role....the drug itself does not produce Samadhi alone.... If simoly taking a drug produced Samadhi, it'd be a VERY popular drug ;-) In any case, using a drug in combonation with other practices to open into Samadhi is not affectively different than sitting Zazen and using soecific breath techniques....the means ate largely irrelevant, and also, only really needed by the novice. The means are not the Samadhi ;-) You might just as easily wrote that "All one has to do is sit Zazen and breath correctly with the right focus and enter Samadhi" as you wrote "all one has to do is take a drug with the right guide to enter Samadhi" The means that an individual uses to release the knower into the known, or uniting the subjective and objective, do not say anything about the state of Samadhi, they say something about the means....which are widely varied...and do not have to be complicated or difficult. Whether Samadhi occurs as a result of a drug/meditation combo, meditation and breath control combo, or just sitting silently and alertly while letting go of all "knowing" is not th Lahiri Mahasaya e point....and the "means" do not diminish the UNION. True but that union is not Liberation my friend and no they do not use ephedra in the real Soma in India. When I was a student of Kryia Yoga I was given specfic Kryias that open you up to go into Samadhi. P Yogananda spoke about this in his teachings that were based loosely on Kryia Yoga but what he did was to leave out certain Kryias as he thought they would be too far out for the western mind and he also changed some of them. I learned my Kryias directly from the dynasty tradition which means were passed down through Lahiri Mahasaya the grandfather of Kryia yoga. These Kryias remain unchanged and are the real deal.Shibendu Lahiri the great grandson of Lahiri was my teacher. I can tell you first hand that I experience many times of Samadhi using these rare kryias and though the communion was wonderful it's not Liberation. I was very fortunate to video tape all these Kryias Shibendu has the distinction of receiving the original Kriya process in the age old Rishi-tradition of India, that is, from father to son - generation after generation. Thus the process here passed, through knowledge and genes, from Shyama Charan to Tinkori to Satya Charan to Shibendu who was initiated in 1960 by his father Late Satya Charan Lahiri at the family shrine "Satyalok" D 22/3, Chousatti Ghat, Varanasi - 221 001 (India).Like his ancestors, Shibendu Lahiri is also a house-holder and has passed through all aspects being a human so that spiritual journey does not appear too steep for the seekers. He received high university education and supported his family well, through remunerative jobs. His two daughters and their husbands are specialised medical doctors and his only son, also married, is an erudite-engineer. Since 14 Jannuary 1988, Shibendu is serving Kriya Yoga on full time basis. Year in and year out, he travels throughout the world at the invitation of devotees and disciples. Countries he has covered so far are: USA (including Hawaii and Puerto Rico), Canada, Australia, Spain, Portugal, Italy, France, Switzerland, Austria, South Africa, Mauritius, Chile (South America), Norway, Singapore, Malaysia, Germany, Bulgaria, Russia, Nepal, Sweden, Netherland and England and of course, various places within his own country. Shibendu Lahiri has no organisation, institution, sect or cult. He has no ambition to influence anybody. He only invites seekers to share the insight which flowered, generation after generation, in the Lahiri Dynasty through Kriya process. His mission is to teach deep Indian spirituality like his forefathers. His yearning is to see that human beings live in peace and amity without ache, agony and animosity, without this monstrous culture of killing and being killed in the name of some fragmented flag or phoney fanatic idea.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2013 19:48:35 GMT -5
Its not VERY different, its just less harsh because the alkyliod catalyst is less harsh, it usually make use of ephedra as the alkyliod, it also generally a lesser concentration of DMT....additionally, you said it right when you said the "sitter" plays a big role....the drug itself does not produce Samadhi alone.... If simoly taking a drug produced Samadhi, it'd be a VERY popular drug ;-) In any case, using a drug in combonation with other practices to open into Samadhi is not affectively different than sitting Zazen and using soecific breath techniques....the means ate largely irrelevant, and also, only really needed by the novice. The means are not the Samadhi ;-) You might just as easily wrote that "All one has to do is sit Zazen and breath correctly with the right focus and enter Samadhi" as you wrote "all one has to do is take a drug with the right guide to enter Samadhi" The means that an individual uses to release the knower into the known, or uniting the subjective and objective, do not say anything about the state of Samadhi, they say something about the means....which are widely varied...and do not have to be complicated or difficult. Whether Samadhi occurs as a result of a drug/meditation combo, meditation and breath control combo, or just sitting silently and alertly while letting go of all "knowing" is not th Lahiri Mahasaya e point....and the "means" do not diminish the UNION. True but that union is not Liberation my friend and no they do not use ephedra in the real Soma in India. When I was a student of Kryia Yoga I was given specfic Kryias that open you up to go into Samadhi. P Yogananda spoke about this in his teachings that were based loosely on Kryia Yoga but what he did was to leave out certain Kryias as he thought they would be too far out for the western mind and he also changed some of them. I learned my Kryias directly from the dynasty tradition which means were passed down through Lahiri Mahasaya the grandfather of Kryia yoga. These Kryias remain unchanged and are the real deal.Shibendu Lahiri the great grandson of Lahiri was my teacher. I can tell you first hand that I experience many times of Samadhi using these rare kryias and though the communion was wonderful it's not Liberation. I was very fortunate to video tape all these Kryias Shibendu has the distinction of receiving the original Kriya process in the age old Rishi-tradition of India, that is, from father to son - generation after generation. Thus the process here passed, through knowledge and genes, from Shyama Charan to Tinkori to Satya Charan to Shibendu who was initiated in 1960 by his father Late Satya Charan Lahiri at the family shrine "Satyalok" D 22/3, Chousatti Ghat, Varanasi - 221 001 (India).Like his ancestors, Shibendu Lahiri is also a house-holder and has passed through all aspects being a human so that spiritual journey does not appear too steep for the seekers. He received high university education and supported his family well, through remunerative jobs. His two daughters and their husbands are specialised medical doctors and his only son, also married, is an erudite-engineer. Since 14 Jannuary 1988, Shibendu is serving Kriya Yoga on full time basis. Year in and year out, he travels throughout the world at the invitation of devotees and disciples. Countries he has covered so far are: USA (including Hawaii and Puerto Rico), Canada, Australia, Spain, Portugal, Italy, France, Switzerland, Austria, South Africa, Mauritius, Chile (South America), Norway, Singapore, Malaysia, Germany, Bulgaria, Russia, Nepal, Sweden, Netherland and England and of course, various places within his own country. Shibendu Lahiri has no organisation, institution, sect or cult. He has no ambition to influence anybody. He only invites seekers to share the insight which flowered, generation after generation, in the Lahiri Dynasty through Kriya process. His mission is to teach deep Indian spirituality like his forefathers. His yearning is to see that human beings live in peace and amity without ache, agony and animosity, without this monstrous culture of killing and being killed in the name of some fragmented flag or phoney fanatic idea. Very cool, Regarding "Liberation"....its a relative term, relative to the individual. Its relative in that Liberation is something only a person can experience The person seeks and achieves liberation, and, in most cases, does so by degrees. If one sheds a strongly held illusion or attachment, one feels and is liberated. But from another perspective, one can look at that person and see that there are many more attachments to let go of, so they are not in fact liberated....Liberation is a perspective, and in most cases, its felt as a liberation OF the person from some particular illusions or attachments. What you experience or term as liberation, is relative to YOU.
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Post by enigma on Oct 5, 2013 21:50:36 GMT -5
The mystic approach is valid. Normally I wouldn't find myself actively defending or promoting it, but lately here things have become overly rational. Lots of scientific and philosophical models, and a handful that think realization is a story. Something seems missing in all that.
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Post by acewall on Oct 5, 2013 21:54:40 GMT -5
romancing the intellect people do before they die an re-emerge a little softer for the experience.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2013 0:15:01 GMT -5
The mystic approach is valid. Normally I wouldn't find myself actively defending or promoting it, but lately here things have become overly rational. Lots of scientific and philosophical models, and a handful that think realization is a story. Something seems missing in all that.Grace The philosophical and scientific models have a space for profound Wonder. But seems to lack a space for ineffable Grace. Also, the scientific and philosophical paths are not very good at BEING versus knowing. Knowing can brush up against the ineffable, but will always be a bit "removed" from the ineffable no matter how much the distance is cut in half. Said another way: As science and philosophy progress and become more refined, they are always cutting the distance to the ineffable, but they will always be doing this, and never quite getting there. Wonder imbues Knowing, Grace imbues Being.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2013 0:49:16 GMT -5
Its the purest of experience, with an utter lack of overlay Purification requires a willingness to yield. The nature of a will that can yield has a great finesse to it. Tears taste of the ocean.
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Post by enigma on Oct 6, 2013 11:12:30 GMT -5
The mystic approach is valid. Normally I wouldn't find myself actively defending or promoting it, but lately here things have become overly rational. Lots of scientific and philosophical models, and a handful that think realization is a story. Something seems missing in all that.Grace The philosophical and scientific models have a space for profound Wonder. But seems to lack a space for ineffable Grace. Also, the scientific and philosophical paths are not very good at BEING versus knowing. Knowing can brush up against the ineffable, but will always be a bit "removed" from the ineffable no matter how much the distance is cut in half. Said another way: As science and philosophy progress and become more refined, they are always cutting the distance to the ineffable, but they will always be doing this, and never quite getting there.Wonder imbues Knowing, Grace imbues Being. That's cuz science is an expression of the ineffable and not the discoverer.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2013 15:15:15 GMT -5
Purification requires a willingness to yield. The nature of a will that can yield has a great finesse to it. Tears taste of the ocean.As does the blood....all three have the same Ph :-)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2013 15:40:19 GMT -5
"The knowledge that ends all knowledge " is not the best catch phrase.
Seung Sahn had a good one:
"Only go straight, and Only Don't Know"
If you are going to teach, then you gotta think how your "catch phrases" may be interpreted when you are no longer around to clarify statements ;-)
Maybe try distilling "The knowledge that ends all knowledge" down to its most essential meaning.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2013 16:38:17 GMT -5
I asked a simple question about God's will... If you accept God's will like you say you have then the answer to the question would have been Yes, sitting on a meditation pillow until the mind/body dies would be God's will... You think God is busy micro-managing the actions of an entire universe and still has time to manage the actions of 7 billion peeps?! I sure wouldn't want his job... I find it terribly sad in 2013, that people still struggle under the much-too-heavy burden of their imagination; as deeply infiltrated and infected with this farcical religious disease of 'god' as being something like a (single) physical man. Surely we should have realised by now that such illogical notions would best have been entombed inside the burial chambers with the ancient Egyptian pharaohs, and left to decompose in peace. Well we don't have a choice it's God's will silly...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2013 16:43:47 GMT -5
I asked a simple question about God's will... If you accept God's will like you say you have then the answer to the question would have been Yes, sitting on a meditation pillow until the mind/body dies would be God's will... You think God is busy micro-managing the actions of an entire universe and still has time to manage the actions of 7 billion peeps?! I sure wouldn't want his job... The pay is really, really good, though. You couldn't pay me enough to be blamed for the 150,000 deaths in the world each day... Of course it is off set somewhat when religious folks score a touch down in a professional football game...hehe
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2013 16:53:41 GMT -5
Grace The philosophical and scientific models have a space for profound Wonder. But seems to lack a space for ineffable Grace. Also, the scientific and philosophical paths are not very good at BEING versus knowing. Knowing can brush up against the ineffable, but will always be a bit "removed" from the ineffable no matter how much the distance is cut in half. Said another way: As science and philosophy progress and become more refined, they are always cutting the distance to the ineffable, but they will always be doing this, and never quite getting there.Wonder imbues Knowing, Grace imbues Being. That's cuz science is an expression of the ineffable and not the discoverer. Yes, science is an expression of the ineffable, which was discovered to be in the brain... It's the same place where Grace arises... It's the place where the sense you exist comes from, but since this is a spiritual forum, we'll stick with what everyone knows is the real truth...
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