Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2013 16:13:53 GMT -5
I thought this might make a decent discussion thread, and am interested in your view, so I reposted this here as a stan alone thread.
Most modern spiritual teachers seem to fundamentally talk about the same things, which are:
1. What Enlightenment is like. (Which is a totally useless thing to discuss because unless you have had a kensho or realization experience hearing about other's is useless)
2. The nature of reality that they perceive as a result of realization. (Which is all a bunch of useless crap that creates more mind spin in those that have not had a kensho experience)
3. The impact that enlightenment has had on their psyche and the way they interact with life. (Which is an explanation of their own feelgoodism)
4. (This one ends up being the bulk of every conversation) An explanation on how you may incorporate the lessons of their enlightenment into your own life in a way that improves your interaction with life. (Feelgoodism)
Most of what folks like the TAT crowd and most other teachers that hold satsangs and discussions talk about how to interact with life from a platform of realization in a way that improves your interaction with life as an individual.
Its the same thing that Mooji and Adyashanti and most others discuss, only frankly his delivery is not as skillful at making you feel good while listening to him.
But the real issue isn't all of that, its that the whole conversation is a strawman, and misses the point that realization is not a goal or a destination, its a tool at best, and a distraction at worst.
Realization/Enlightenment, does not solve the fundamental problem, which is one's limited state of individuated awareness absorbed in a ME....sure, enlightenment evens things out for the ME, and one is not drug along by the ups and downs of life, which is a very useful platform from which to shift consciousness, but it is not the end game.
The purpose of enlightenment is to inform the mind of the lack of need to cling to individuated consciousness and to attract it toward dropping the experience of individuation and exchange it for universal being.....enlightenment is an opening of a space that makes it easier and less scary to let go of individuation as an experience....to do this it informs the mind on an intellectual and emotional level that it is not the illusion of an individuation and that there is no "substance" to this existence.....but this is the mind being intellectually and emotionally informed, without there being a real/permanent shift in the nature of conciousness.
In most cases one has a momentary shift of consciousness from the individuated perspective to the unified perspective, which precipitates a mental realization about one's true nature. Too often in modern culture One then clings to this realization and tries to use it to improve their life, instead of letting go of the life of the individual in favor of the loss of self in a unified consciousness.
The result is that that individual goes on living life within the illusionary experience of individuation, all the while knowing intellectually and emotionally that they are not an individuation....And the frequent result for the people they talk to is that many just try to mimc the intellectual realization themselves, without ever doing the things that lead to the "teachers" realization.
The teachers themselves often drop all the practices that lead to the momentary shift in consciousness that spawned the realization....when all along, the purpose of the realization is to make it easier to make the momentary shift from the experience of individuation to the permanent experience of a unified whole.
The other thing is that people see realization as a completion of practice and understanding, when really it is the beginning of deeper experience, IF ONE MOVES DEEPER INTO THE PRACTICES THAT SHIFTED THEIR CONSCIOUSNESS and spawned the kensho in the first place...:-)
Fundamentally, its all a discussion about enlightenment that means nothing if you haven't actually experienced it for yourself, and the hole conversation misses the point of this path in the first place lol
This path is not about understanding that informs mind on how to live a better life, this is not what our deepest inner yearnings are crying out for, our deepest inner yearning is for a return to wholeness,...... not an understanding of wholeness informed by enlightenment, but an ever deepening experience of wholeness that only comes from deepening states of consciousness, that ultimately arrive at a constant state of Samadhi, which, in its various levels increasingly drops the experience (not just the understanding) of individuation in favor of a merging with the infinite.
In these discussions, all the talk is related to enlightenment, with almost no mention of the state of unified experience and experiencer that the human condition yearns for, nor the means of attaining it...enlightenment is an understanding, not a state, and the state of unified consciousness is what humanity is searching for.
Enlightenment is not the end game, and yet it is most often discussed and sought as if it were.
Samadhi; the complete merging of the experiencer into the experience, is the "end game", when the observer is disappeared and become one with the observed, what humanity consciously and unconsciously yearns for is fully actuated.
The pursuit of happiness/Feelgoodism/enlightenment, are all proxies for the conscious living reunion of the individuated with the rest of existence.....this is Samadhi.
What do you guys think about Realization being secondary to a fundamental shift in conciousness from the direct experience of individuation to the direct experience of non-individuated unified consciousness?
Why do you guys think there is so much emphasis on enlightenment, or realization in "spiritual circles" versus Samadhi, or unified limitless consciousness?
Most modern spiritual teachers seem to fundamentally talk about the same things, which are:
1. What Enlightenment is like. (Which is a totally useless thing to discuss because unless you have had a kensho or realization experience hearing about other's is useless)
2. The nature of reality that they perceive as a result of realization. (Which is all a bunch of useless crap that creates more mind spin in those that have not had a kensho experience)
3. The impact that enlightenment has had on their psyche and the way they interact with life. (Which is an explanation of their own feelgoodism)
4. (This one ends up being the bulk of every conversation) An explanation on how you may incorporate the lessons of their enlightenment into your own life in a way that improves your interaction with life. (Feelgoodism)
Most of what folks like the TAT crowd and most other teachers that hold satsangs and discussions talk about how to interact with life from a platform of realization in a way that improves your interaction with life as an individual.
Its the same thing that Mooji and Adyashanti and most others discuss, only frankly his delivery is not as skillful at making you feel good while listening to him.
But the real issue isn't all of that, its that the whole conversation is a strawman, and misses the point that realization is not a goal or a destination, its a tool at best, and a distraction at worst.
Realization/Enlightenment, does not solve the fundamental problem, which is one's limited state of individuated awareness absorbed in a ME....sure, enlightenment evens things out for the ME, and one is not drug along by the ups and downs of life, which is a very useful platform from which to shift consciousness, but it is not the end game.
The purpose of enlightenment is to inform the mind of the lack of need to cling to individuated consciousness and to attract it toward dropping the experience of individuation and exchange it for universal being.....enlightenment is an opening of a space that makes it easier and less scary to let go of individuation as an experience....to do this it informs the mind on an intellectual and emotional level that it is not the illusion of an individuation and that there is no "substance" to this existence.....but this is the mind being intellectually and emotionally informed, without there being a real/permanent shift in the nature of conciousness.
In most cases one has a momentary shift of consciousness from the individuated perspective to the unified perspective, which precipitates a mental realization about one's true nature. Too often in modern culture One then clings to this realization and tries to use it to improve their life, instead of letting go of the life of the individual in favor of the loss of self in a unified consciousness.
The result is that that individual goes on living life within the illusionary experience of individuation, all the while knowing intellectually and emotionally that they are not an individuation....And the frequent result for the people they talk to is that many just try to mimc the intellectual realization themselves, without ever doing the things that lead to the "teachers" realization.
The teachers themselves often drop all the practices that lead to the momentary shift in consciousness that spawned the realization....when all along, the purpose of the realization is to make it easier to make the momentary shift from the experience of individuation to the permanent experience of a unified whole.
The other thing is that people see realization as a completion of practice and understanding, when really it is the beginning of deeper experience, IF ONE MOVES DEEPER INTO THE PRACTICES THAT SHIFTED THEIR CONSCIOUSNESS and spawned the kensho in the first place...:-)
Fundamentally, its all a discussion about enlightenment that means nothing if you haven't actually experienced it for yourself, and the hole conversation misses the point of this path in the first place lol
This path is not about understanding that informs mind on how to live a better life, this is not what our deepest inner yearnings are crying out for, our deepest inner yearning is for a return to wholeness,...... not an understanding of wholeness informed by enlightenment, but an ever deepening experience of wholeness that only comes from deepening states of consciousness, that ultimately arrive at a constant state of Samadhi, which, in its various levels increasingly drops the experience (not just the understanding) of individuation in favor of a merging with the infinite.
In these discussions, all the talk is related to enlightenment, with almost no mention of the state of unified experience and experiencer that the human condition yearns for, nor the means of attaining it...enlightenment is an understanding, not a state, and the state of unified consciousness is what humanity is searching for.
Enlightenment is not the end game, and yet it is most often discussed and sought as if it were.
Samadhi; the complete merging of the experiencer into the experience, is the "end game", when the observer is disappeared and become one with the observed, what humanity consciously and unconsciously yearns for is fully actuated.
The pursuit of happiness/Feelgoodism/enlightenment, are all proxies for the conscious living reunion of the individuated with the rest of existence.....this is Samadhi.
What do you guys think about Realization being secondary to a fundamental shift in conciousness from the direct experience of individuation to the direct experience of non-individuated unified consciousness?
Why do you guys think there is so much emphasis on enlightenment, or realization in "spiritual circles" versus Samadhi, or unified limitless consciousness?