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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2013 18:30:50 GMT -5
Going back to the start of the thread Steve, are there any modern (and by that i mean alive) teachers that you think are on the level? Hello Earnest, certainly none of the popular western teachers I've looked into. Most of them don't even know what Samadhi is lol Question posted about a guy named Aziz Kristof from Poland, and while I was at first skeptical because others talked about him having a "new and unique method", he does not seem to take that line. He has this whole big process that he talks about by way of a total integration of practice, I follow a simpler more direct approach, but in the end, he does talk about Samadhi from an experiential perspective, and he does talk about making Samadhi conciousness integrated into every aspect of your life. So while his methods are more complex than my own, he does seem to gnosis the Samadhi state of conciousness, understand its significance, and understand why and how that state of conciousness may be integrated throughout the course of daily living. Other than him, I haven't seen anyone besides me that is currently projecting a living body discuss this stuff, but they are out there somewhere, there are some living Dzogchen Tibetan teachers that use differant terminology, but are talking about the same state of consciousness, and have a very good system of practice for it.....I'll forward some names later...those Tibetan guys usually only teach this stuff to a small group of inner circle students, and only then through years and years of being with them. Other than that I think you have to look toward some of the old school advaita sages that can still be found in india and sri lanka and maylasia....but you will have to sort the wheat from the chaff with that bunch. I have not really researched it all that much, but will look into it. If you can find any living students of a Zen Master named Katsuki Sekida you will probably be in good hands.
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Post by enigma on Sept 19, 2013 18:31:18 GMT -5
Going back to the start of the thread Steve, are there any modern (and by that i mean alive) teachers that you think are on the level? Steve.
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Post by enigma on Sept 19, 2013 18:33:44 GMT -5
You're addicted to an experience. Plain and simple. Okay, thanks. Are you addicted to anything, like "understanding"? Or anything else? Maybe mental clarity? Anything? I hear he's addicted to raspberry fig newtons.......Oh, wait, that's me......Never mind.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2013 18:34:55 GMT -5
Going back to the start of the thread Steve, are there any modern (and by that i mean alive) teachers that you think are on the level? Steve.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2013 18:35:24 GMT -5
Okay, thanks. Are you addicted to anything, like "understanding"? Or anything else? Maybe mental clarity? Anything? I hear he's addicted to raspberry fig newtons.......Oh, wait, that's me......Never mind. LoL
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2013 20:28:01 GMT -5
Whenever I hear samadhi, images burned in my memory appear, one of a zen monk immolating, fully ablaze, with perfect lotus posture, and another of a skeleton in lotus position with "samadhi suicide" as the label. The state was apparently so enticing, one just watched the body wither into dust. Steven, does your drive for permanent samadhi account for this possibility? Your beautiful Latina wife and biz clients may want to know. I do still have some attachments to those things, and i am not (so far) trying to engender a state of constant absolute Samadhi, when I feel that living this life is coming to a close then we'll approach that. But while I've still got some life left to live constant relative Samadhi is the "goal". One thing of note, is that each step along the way, as the mind is informed by realization, the imagination of what one may lose from something like a constant state of Samadhi is cleared away, and its seen that the imagined fears were just that....imagined, based ona misconceived idea. Regarding what you describe as "your drive toward permanent Samadhi." It's not much a choice anymore. As silly and woo woo as this may sound, when I am in a state of ME centered consciousness, its as though the ME has become so infatuated with what I've come to conceptualize and experience as the loss of Self in God Union, that there is no real choice in "turning toward the light" so to speak.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 19, 2013 21:29:29 GMT -5
Actually, I only spoke in terms of an "end game", in response to your comment about realization being the "goal" or end game. I am not really relating in terms of "end games" to this experience. What I'm discussing, is the over emphasis that has developed toward enlightenment versus Samadhi in our culture, and stating that in my experience of late, Samadhi, or a hyper concious unfiltered selfless state of consciousness, is much more significant that a realization occurring within an individuated state consciousness. Also, I would not say that the mind goes into overdrive when coming out of Samadhi, its more accurate to say that realization occurs that informs mind, just as ZD's realization informed his mind that all things are one and perfect, and that realization informed the living and quality of his life. Realization informs the individual about the limitless unified perfection of existence...but it informs the individuated mind....realization happens because fir a moment the individuation is released and unified limitless consciousness is the experience, when one returns to an individuated state of consciousness, the mind has a big woo woo about: Wow, thats how things are! What I'm saying is that the knowing of the thing is not the thing. Meaning that mind's realization of unified perfection occurs from experiencing a moment of unified perfection unfiltered by a consciousness of individuation.....and that this realization occurring to the individual that resulted from the moment of Samadhi, is not the point, Samadhi is the point. You're addicted to an experience. Plain and simple. It sounds like you imply that's a bad thing. sdp
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2013 22:04:19 GMT -5
You're addicted to an experience. Plain and simple. It sounds like you imply that's a bad thing. sdp LoL, exactly.....shame on me fir being addicted to that whole "Christ Consciousness" experience thing...:-)
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Post by Reefs on Sept 19, 2013 22:48:19 GMT -5
You think that's the 9th Jhana thingy again? Is there any doubt? Well, 2 years ago Steve already was in the deepest Samadhi all the time and never coming out.
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Post by Reefs on Sept 19, 2013 22:51:45 GMT -5
I would not describe Samadhi as extreme mental silence, or talk about it that way, as thats not how the experience appears to me. as to the rest, I think folks have gotten it all backwards....A moment of Samadhi facitlitates realization, but realization is the facilitator, not the end game...the "end game" is moving deeper into Samadhi and becoming stable in it, meaning, that Samadhi becomes to new normal state in almost a kind of evolution of individuated conciousness that disapears, or open into God, or limitlessly unified conciousness. A moment of Samadhi reveals realization, but realization is just the facilitator of going the rest of the way into the opening of conciousness. Do you recognize that it is precisely your complex thinking that has created this end game and the entire path you've placed before yourself? When you come out of samadhi your mind seems to go into overdrive forming an elaborate identity and spiritual path to pursue. Which begs the question how samadhi-ish that samadhi actually is.
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Post by Reefs on Sept 19, 2013 22:53:16 GMT -5
Do you recognize that it is precisely your complex thinking that has created this end game and the entire path you've placed before yourself? When you come out of samadhi your mind seems to go into overdrive forming an elaborate identity and spiritual path to pursue. Yes, that's the elephant in the living room here. I don't have an issue with spiritual experiences, and regular Samahdi in an accomplishment Steve can be proud of, but there's the rub. From my perspective, the definition of enlightenment, realization and the 'end game' have been completely reoriented to accommodate the spiritual experience as the goal. Now, suddenly, realization is the result of Samadhi, and enlightenment is some kind of precursor awakening in preparation for the state. What does ring true is the 'game' part.It sounds a little andrewesque if you put it that way.
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Post by Reefs on Sept 19, 2013 22:55:06 GMT -5
Amen, and that's what SQ was pointing to. But the thing is, that you are agreeing on a strawman. which is the assumption that Samadhi is the facilitator of realization and nothing more, and that realization is the "end game", and once realized, Samadhi is pointless. I'm simply saying that my own "evolution" is that Samadhi (a unified state of consciousness without the limitations of an experiential self)is the point of it all, not realization, and that realization is really the facilitator of surrendering the self in permanent Samadhi. What, if any, is your counter summation, and why ZD? I disagree that Samadhi is a facilitator and not the "goal" or "destination"...Samadhi IS the point of it all, it is the path and the destination....fundamentally, I've come to realize that shift to Samadhi is the fundamental movement of the human condition...i.e. a direct experiential Union with existence unfiltered by the experience of a Self or a localized individuated perspective. Said another way, Being versus knowing Oneness. 'Goal' is a strange word here, in the context of non-being being, don't you think?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2013 23:01:06 GMT -5
But the thing is, that you are agreeing on a strawman. which is the assumption that Samadhi is the facilitator of realization and nothing more, and that realization is the "end game", and once realized, Samadhi is pointless. I'm simply saying that my own "evolution" is that Samadhi (a unified state of consciousness without the limitations of an experiential self)is the point of it all, not realization, and that realization is really the facilitator of surrendering the self in permanent Samadhi. What, if any, is your counter summation, and why ZD? I disagree that Samadhi is a facilitator and not the "goal" or "destination"...Samadhi IS the point of it all, it is the path and the destination....fundamentally, I've come to realize that shift to Samadhi is the fundamental movement of the human condition...i.e. a direct experiential Union with existence unfiltered by the experience of a Self or a localized individuated perspective. Said another way, Being versus knowing Oneness. 'Goal' is a strange word here, in the context of non-being being, don't you think? Yep, but I'm kinda just going with the flow of the questions that asked. Most people here understand that using the word "goal" or "end game" etc in the context of this conversation is really just a concession to ease of communication. Somebody else used it and I just followed suite instead of correcting it because it wasn't that salient to the jest of the conversation
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Post by Reefs on Sept 19, 2013 23:02:15 GMT -5
Do you recognize that it is precisely your complex thinking that has created this end game and the entire path you've placed before yourself? When you come out of samadhi your mind seems to go into overdrive forming an elaborate identity and spiritual path to pursue. Actually, I only spoke in terms of an "end game", in response to your comment about realization being the "goal" or end game. I am not really relating in terms of "end games" to this experience. What I'm discussing, is the over emphasis that has developed toward enlightenment versus Samadhi in our culture, and stating that in my experience of late, Samadhi, or a hyper concious unfiltered selfless state of consciousness, is much more significant that a realization occurring within an individuated state consciousness. Also, I would not say that the mind goes into overdrive when coming out of Samadhi, its more accurate to say that realization occurs that informs mind, just as ZD's realization informed his mind that all things are one and perfect, and that realization informed the living and quality of his life. Realization informs the individual about the limitless unified perfection of existence...but it informs the individuated mind....realization happens because fir a moment the individuation is released and unified limitless consciousness is the experience, when one returns to an individuated state of consciousness, the mind has a big woo woo about: Wow, thats how things are! What I'm saying is that the knowing of the thing is not the thing. Meaning that mind's realization of unified perfection occurs from experiencing a moment of unified perfection unfiltered by a consciousness of individuation.....and that this realization occurring to the individual that resulted from the moment of Samadhi, is not the point, Samadhi is the point. Can you define the term 'individual' a bit more clearly?
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Post by Reefs on Sept 19, 2013 23:05:29 GMT -5
'Goal' is a strange word here, in the context of non-being being, don't you think? Yep, but I'm kinda just going with the flow of the questions that asked. Most people here understand that using the word "goal" or "end game" etc in the context of this conversation is really just a concession to ease of communication. Andrew said that the goal is not to become conscious, that one has to be willing to get irretrievably lost in mind. So you would say the goal is to become hyper/super-conscious, that one has to be willing to get irretrievably lost in samadhi?
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