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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2013 20:26:13 GMT -5
Actually, if you are capable of perceiving, your only ever perceiving your own mind, and not an objective TRF that exists out in an objective world... I say 'if you are capable of perceiving', because it's more like asking one of my dream characters if they are capable of perceiving... Which they aren't... The notion that you are real, and everybody else is your dream character is one of those nasty misconceptions that makes bears so angry. Dream characters aren't, of course, 'out there' in an objective world. Is that something you need for me to believe so that you can disagree? I'm talking about perceiving and you seem to continue thinking that I'm going to impart something meaningful about it... Guess what that ain't gonna happen... Where did I say that I thought I was real? Can you perceive who's giraffe that actually belongs to?...
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Post by enigma on Sept 3, 2013 21:25:57 GMT -5
The notion that you are real, and everybody else is your dream character is one of those nasty misconceptions that makes bears so angry. Dream characters aren't, of course, 'out there' in an objective world. Is that something you need for me to believe so that you can disagree? I'm talking about perceiving and you seem to continue thinking that I'm going to impart something meaningful about it... Guess what that ain't gonna happen... Where did I say that I thought I was real? Can you perceive who's giraffe that actually belongs to?... Right here: "it's more like asking one of my dream characters..." You don't have dream characters. You ARE a dream character.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2013 10:58:59 GMT -5
I'm talking about perceiving and you seem to continue thinking that I'm going to impart something meaningful about it... Guess what that ain't gonna happen... Where did I say that I thought I was real? Can you perceive who's giraffe that actually belongs to?... Right here: "it's more like asking one of my dream characters..." You don't have dream characters. You ARE a dream character. So if I say that I perceive a dream character you conclude that I'm saying that I must think that I'm real? And then you conceive that I don't perceive dream characters but I AM a dream character... Really E, I don't think your imagined perspective of a source of clarity is serving you very well...
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Post by enigma on Sept 4, 2013 11:49:19 GMT -5
Right here: "it's more like asking one of my dream characters..." You don't have dream characters. You ARE a dream character. So if I say that I perceive a dream character you conclude that I'm saying that I must think that I'm real? I say if you see them as your dream characters, and see yourself as the one asking your dream characters, then you must think you are the real dreamer. (The Real Fake)
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Post by laughter on Sept 4, 2013 12:11:47 GMT -5
So if I say that I perceive a dream character you conclude that I'm saying that I must think that I'm real? I say if you see them as your dream characters, and see yourself as the one asking your dream characters, then you must think you are the real dreamer. (The Real Fake) Ain't no hope for objectivity, but between subjectivity and solipsism is the recognition that we are seen and heard by perspectives other than our own. The truth that there is no I is balanced in the paradox by the truth that there is a you. The dream starts with I and ends with you. The dream starts with you and ends with I.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2013 18:35:53 GMT -5
So if I say that I perceive a dream character you conclude that I'm saying that I must think that I'm real? I say if you see them as your dream characters, and see yourself as the one asking your dream characters, then you must think you are the real dreamer. (The Real Fake) Why don't you just listen to what I'm saying instead of imagining what I'm saying? I said I perceive dream characters...that they are mine and see myself asking dream characters questions, and that I must think I am a real dreamer are ALL your imaginings...your giraffes.
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Post by enigma on Sept 6, 2013 21:18:43 GMT -5
I say if you see them as your dream characters, and see yourself as the one asking your dream characters, then you must think you are the real dreamer. (The Real Fake) Why don't you just listen to what I'm saying instead of imagining what I'm saying? I said I perceive dream characters...that they are mine and see myself asking dream characters questions, and that I must think I am a real dreamer are ALL your imaginings...your giraffes. The problem seems to be that I'm actually listening to what you say instead of what you think you mean. "it's more like asking one of my dream characters..."
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2013 21:40:34 GMT -5
Why don't you just listen to what I'm saying instead of imagining what I'm saying? I said I perceive dream characters...that they are mine and see myself asking dream characters questions, and that I must think I am a real dreamer are ALL your imaginings...your giraffes. The problem seems to be that I'm actually listening to what you say instead of what you think you mean. "it's more like asking one of my dream characters..." You just can't help yourself from imagining what 'I think I mean'... Actually it was you who said that "I 'AM' a dream character"...
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