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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2013 20:11:51 GMT -5
No nobody has ever experienced a self... We actually only ever experience a feeling, then a sensation, then a smell, then a sound, then a taste. Then we fill in the blanks and conceive that an amorphous entity called my self is experiencing these senses.It's the difference between perceiving the senses and conceiving that there is an actual body that is perceiving the senses... Right, that's called an experience. It's not necessary for it to be based on something true in order for the experience to happen. You were talking about experiencing a 'self'...there is never the experience of a 'self' except as a conception? The experience of the sense of sight for instance is true because there is no separation between the perceiver and the perceived...it's the conception 'about' that experience which isn't true.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2013 20:18:03 GMT -5
No nobody has ever experienced a self... We actually only ever experience a feeling, then a sensation, then a smell, then a sound, then a taste. Then we fill in the blanks and conceive that an amorphous entity called my self is experiencing these senses. It's the difference between perceiving the senses and conceiving that there is an actual body that is perceiving the senses... The filling in the blanks part is kind of important because it's taking the experience beyond simple sensations and completely altering one's perspective.It's not simple sensations, it's the seeing that the perceiver and the perceived are not separate, not two... It's the conceiving of a separate self that perceives that is actually the simple sensation or rather thought that alters perspective.... If you stayed with the experience of the senses you'd see that the rest of it is all mental construction...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2013 20:36:04 GMT -5
No-self: WTF? What are ya? Self: Who wants to know? No-self: I knows no-self exists. Self: The I that admits no-self exists, is two. No-self: Are you the One? Self: I Am you. No-self: No youre not, I am Me. Self: Me is no-self? No-self: How would I know... self dosnt exist. Self: Am I not talking with no-self? No-self: No-self is not here. Self: Where does no-self abide? No-self: In You. Self: Not in you? No-self: Dont get smart with me. Self: Not smart at all... I only want to know. No-self: STFU then! Self: But you wanted to know me. No-self: Now I knows you are a self, there isnt anything to know. Self: Self knows all? No-self: Self knows fcuk-all. Self: there you go then. No-self: Where? Self: Youre over there and I am over here. No-self: There's no-self here, you know fcuk-all. Self: OK fcuk-all, lets go do it then. No-self: Do what? Self: Lets go fcuk-brains. No-self: Now thats a good idea. Where did that come from? Self: No-where.
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Post by enigma on Aug 30, 2013 21:50:35 GMT -5
Right, that's called an experience. It's not necessary for it to be based on something true in order for the experience to happen. You were talking about experiencing a 'self'...there is never the experience of a 'self' except as a conception? The experience of the sense of sight for instance is true because there is no separation between the perceiver and the perceived...it's the conception 'about' that experience which isn't true. I said everybody has had the experience of a self. It's not necessary for it to be based on something true in order for the experience to happen. You find yourself in the odd position of trying to get me to see that the separate, volitional identity is an illusion, and You know that I know that you know that I know that......ya know?
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Post by enigma on Aug 30, 2013 21:56:52 GMT -5
The filling in the blanks part is kind of important because it's taking the experience beyond simple sensations and completely altering one's perspective. [/b][/quote] It's not simple sensations, it's the seeing that the perceiver and the perceived are not separate, not two... It's the conceiving of a separate self that perceives that is actually the simple sensation or rather thought that alters perspective....[/quote] Those statements say the same thing. I know that you know that I know that Silence knows that.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2013 22:33:58 GMT -5
You were talking about experiencing a 'self'...there is never the experience of a 'self' except as a conception? The experience of the sense of sight for instance is true because there is no separation between the perceiver and the perceived...it's the conception 'about' that experience which isn't true. I said everybody has had the experience of a self. It's not necessary for it to be based on something true in order for the experience to happen. You find yourself in the odd position of trying to get me to see that the separate, volitional identity is an illusion, and You know that I know that you know that I know that......ya know? Maybe it's odd for you because I'm not trying to get you to see that "the separate, volitional identity is an illusion"... I'm talking about what you actually perceive moment to moment and you keep wanting to think 'about' it...
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Post by enigma on Aug 30, 2013 23:54:50 GMT -5
I said everybody has had the experience of a self. It's not necessary for it to be based on something true in order for the experience to happen. You find yourself in the odd position of trying to get me to see that the separate, volitional identity is an illusion, and You know that I know that you know that I know that......ya know? Maybe it's odd for you because I'm not trying to get you to see that "the separate, volitional identity is an illusion"... I'm talking about what you actually perceive moment to moment and you keep wanting to think 'about' it... Actually, you're imagining what I'm doing and thinking, and then trying to correct what you imagine. You search for a difference between what you say and what I say, and of course you find it. (you're doing the same thing with Silence)I'm not clear why you do that, but it's a strong pattern for you.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2013 1:32:09 GMT -5
No-self: WTF? What are ya? Self: Who wants to know? No-self: I knows no-self exists.Self: The I that admits no-self exists, is two. No-self: Are you the One? Self: I Am you. No-self: No youre not, I am Me. Self: Me is no-self? No-self: How would I know... self dosnt exist. Self: Am I not talking with no-self? No-self: No-self is not here. Self: Where does no-self abide? No-self: In You. Self: Not in you? No-self: Dont get smart with me. Self: Not smart at all... I only want to know. No-self: STFU then! Self: But you wanted to know me. No-self: Now I knows you are a self, there isnt anything to know. Self: Self knows all? No-self: Self knows fcuk-all. Self: there you go then. No-self: Where? Self: Youre over there and I am over here. No-self: There's no-self here, you know fcuk-all. Self: OK fcuk-all, lets go do it then. No-self: Do what? Self: Lets go fcuk-brains. No-self: Now thats a good idea. Where did that come from? Self: No-where. The first mind-f*ck, on which all the others are built.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2013 1:35:18 GMT -5
"until Mooji does it in that Barry White voice" LOLololol, you should tell Mooji this!Reading can lead one astray as well as strengthen ones resistance against entering the transcendental life. Being trusting assisted in taking me through yogic-death early in life to realise deathlessness. Just one moment in time allowed eradication of heaps of fear... all at once. That was my beginning. Looking back today, if I had taken on-board intellectual knowledge(books an there were none in my country)about what I was about to investigate, I wouldn't have taken the route I took. I would still be frightened of having an experience. Many years later I came across Ramana's early life story an that gave me words to put to the experience. Not having words myself I learnt quickly to silence my self as other people would become alarmed when I spoke. In my country I was a freak of nature an death an dying was taboo. Denying your freak, and therefore giving emotion to your version, of what being 'a freak of nature' means, is what is preventing you from seeing the real treasure in your own view.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2013 2:01:01 GMT -5
No-self: WTF? What are ya? Self: Who wants to know? No-self: I knows no-self exists.Self: The I that admits no-self exists, is two. No-self: Are you the One? Self: I Am you. No-self: No youre not, I am Me. Self: Me is no-self? No-self: How would I know... self dosnt exist. Self: Am I not talking with no-self? No-self: No-self is not here. Self: Where does no-self abide? No-self: In You. Self: Not in you? No-self: Dont get smart with me. Self: Not smart at all... I only want to know. No-self: STFU then! Self: But you wanted to know me. No-self: Now I knows you are a self, there isnt anything to know. Self: Self knows all? No-self: Self knows fcuk-all. Self: there you go then. No-self: Where? Self: Youre over there and I am over here. No-self: There's no-self here, you know fcuk-all. Self: OK fcuk-all, lets go do it then. No-self: Do what? Self: Lets go fcuk-brains. No-self: Now thats a good idea. Where did that come from? Self: No-where. The first mind-f*ck, on which all the others are built."I" thinks it knows.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2013 2:04:06 GMT -5
"until Mooji does it in that Barry White voice" LOLololol, you should tell Mooji this!Reading can lead one astray as well as strengthen ones resistance against entering the transcendental life. Being trusting assisted in taking me through yogic-death early in life to realise deathlessness. Just one moment in time allowed eradication of heaps of fear... all at once. That was my beginning. Looking back today, if I had taken on-board intellectual knowledge(books an there were none in my country)about what I was about to investigate, I wouldn't have taken the route I took. I would still be frightened of having an experience. Many years later I came across Ramana's early life story an that gave me words to put to the experience. Not having words myself I learnt quickly to silence my self as other people would become alarmed when I spoke. In my country I was a freak of nature an death an dying was taboo. Denying your freak, and therefore giving emotion to your version, of what being 'a freak of nature' means, is what is preventing you from seeing the real treasure in your own view.not in anyone else's view then?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2013 2:21:40 GMT -5
The first mind-f*ck, on which all the others are built. "I" thinks it knows. Let me clear this up for you. There is no such thing as no-self.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2013 2:22:50 GMT -5
Denying your freak, and therefore giving emotion to your version, of what being 'a freak of nature' means, is what is preventing you from seeing the real treasure in your own view. not in anyone else's view then? This is only ever about your own view. Anyone else's view is your imagination.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2013 2:48:52 GMT -5
"I" thinks it knows. Let me clear this up for you. There is no such thing as no-self. the absence of a self is non-existance.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2013 3:05:14 GMT -5
not in anyone else's view then? This is only ever about your own view. Anyone else's view is your imagination.will sit with THAT.
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