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Post by Peter on Jul 9, 2013 8:02:51 GMT -5
So I come back from a relaxing weekend camping...well, as relaxing as it gets with two kids - and find there's 10 reported posts! All by Reefs and Enigma against Andrew, Verbed and Silver. I assume they all happened in the moderated area (will check as I go). You know, this was the whole point of the unmoderated area that y'all would work through your issue there. I'd initially thought that was having some success. Oh well.
I'll work through them by accused. Heck there's so many I think I need a post per person.
All three of you are requested to respond before I take further action. Please respond before making other posts - I'll PM you to ensure that that's clear.
Peter
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Post by Peter on Jul 9, 2013 8:03:20 GMT -5
AndrewEnigma, put your little poodle back on its lead please. Complaint (Enigma): Seems to be intended only as a purposeful insult and contains no useful information. Response: Agreed. Heh, you really do see yourself looking back trying to help people up to where you are don't you? I don't know who you mean by people but I really don't give a sh/t where you are at. Complaint (Enigma): I don't think foul language is necessary here. Response: Interesting to see Enigma responding to language directed at someone else for a change. And the fact that I had 10 reports waiting for me makes me think that Reefs and Enigma had a wee PM chat behind the scenes and decided to make a play. So OK yes I see that Reefs and Enigma do "work the rules" to their advantage, but Jesus, some of you make it really easy for them to do that. Andrew, I thought Silence was have a fairly moderate little jab there at your (potential) ego in saying that you might be seeing yourself as being the one who's "a rung further up the ladder". Where's this "I don't give a shít" thing coming from? The last time I said you'd lost your cool and you denied it. What I should have said is that you really come over like you've lost your cool. What's up? When dealing with people (such as yourself) whose spirituality/non-duality is wrong to the point of being harmful, I might confront them in a way that is spiritually incorrect. I'm sure Niz wasn't one to stand on ceremony himself. I see Enigma's non-duality as buffoonery to a great extent, but despite this, it seems to me that there is some level of positive contribution. At least he opens the way for an exploration of what non-duality and spirituality is all about. You like to keep your ontology hidden, and there is good reason for that, so aside from a few quotes here and there, what we get from you is mostly destructive. You shouldn't be posting in this section of the forum. Complain (Reefs): Crusade. Response: Disagree. You and Engima have been robustly ribbing Andrew for some time which this weekend's tirade of reporting posts may or may not be part of. This post of his is relatively civil and sets out his complaint quite clearly. I agree with his assertion that you cause more grief that joy in this forum and I don't have a problem with him bringing that up to you. Is that the best you can do? IMO you kind of do see the flaws in your non-duality and there is also a level of awareness that you are just not ready to let go of the nonsense. I'm not here to push that, you tend to make it quite clear when you have had enough. Then you call me back into it, and that's the 'part' of you that really is interested in seeing through your bullsh/t. Complaint (Reefs): Moderation Required. Response: Now Reefs is complaining about posts attacking Engima. You guys really are playing as a team today aren't you? I'd have been fine with Andrew's post here except for his innability to control his language. Andrew, you know that I don't let directed swearing like that go, so I'm thinking that (tell me otherwise) you either want me to take you out of the game for a while so that you can retire with your sense of self righteousness safely intact - martyr style - or you've no ability to control your emotional energy. What does what I allegedly do have to do with your stuckness in rejection interpretations?  You're talking strangely and your spelling is going awry. Time for a banana? Complaint (Reefs): moderation required Response: Well I would deny that one as legitimate concern for your blood sugar levels, except that I don't see you either talking strangely and - certainly in that particular post - I'm not seeing any spelling errors. So I have to assume that Andrew is doing a Verbed style misdirection and rude brush off because he doesn't want to answer the question. Which is annoying I know, but not actually crossing any lines here.
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Post by Peter on Jul 9, 2013 8:04:08 GMT -5
SilverBoth reported by Engima. Complaint: It seems to be intended as an empty insult with no information conveyed other than disagreement. Response: Agreed. Silver, did you forget to check which section of the board you were in? Engima's comment to Tzu (about ego claiming there is no ego) seems perfectly valid. What was your objection? I'd probably have let you off with the BS letters if you'd then go on to discuss why you thought Enigma was talking rubbish. Do think, for example, that Tzu does not possess any Ego or puffed up sense of "spiritual attainment"? You come over like you're just being unpleasant because you don't like Engima, or what he has to say. You add nothing to the discussion except a negative vibe. On the other hand, kudos for having the shortest ever reported post. Four characters. Record. That would be one ph.ucked up perspective. Complaint: Profanity. Response: Crikey, you really make my job easy some times. None of this has-he/hasn't he line crossing judgement call. Just an easy dash well over the line into swearing. Actually it's not particularly directed at anyone, so if this was all there was I'd have let you off with it. But taken together, action appears warranted. Swear filter tip: You don't need to put in a full stop if you're already spelling the word wrong. e Eg Phucked Up or F.ucked Up. That's a free tip by the way. Not really in the job description for being a moderator.
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Post by Peter on Jul 9, 2013 8:05:21 GMT -5
VerbedReefs must not have gotten the big lollipop he wanted in the grocery store when he was 3 years old.... Complaint (Enigma): Seems purposefully insulting without attempting to add any information. Response: Enigma going to bat to defend Reefs here. Ahh, I love the smell of camaradarie in the morning. But yes, this is Verbed's usual MO of irritating snipe without any useful insight (the point being that insight has to be communicated in a way that can be understood if it is to be useful). Personally I find it extremely annoying when he does it to me, and I take that as a sign that my spiritual development has a long way to go. I'm greatful to him for it really, but not so greatful as that I'd want to keep my finger off the button when the time comes. I sometimes wonder how niz would have reacted to reefs had he made the trek to meet him. Probably would have butted out one of his beedes right between reefs' eyebrows. Complaint (Reefs): Moderation Required. Response: I don't even know what a beedes is. I'd have assumed testical, except that he's "butted" it, and you wouldn't headbutt a testical. Is is like some sort of lesson or teaching? Let me check that... nope can't find it. Possibly a mis-spelling of beads. No, I have no idea what is being suggested here. Can I assume it's not a nice thing? Is that too much assumption or is that a safe assumption? I think it's safe. Just in passing Reefs, I'm surprised - given that I've got 10 of them to work through - that you didn't also report Tzu for calling you 'pathetic'. Jeez Tzu. If your behaviour here is what you think of as "ahead" in some way, then you and I are not heading in the same direction. I seriously doubt the guy can even get dressed in the morning without a niz quote telling him to go about it.  Complaint (Engima): Insult for the sake of insult. Response: Indeed it was, and it was directed at Reefs. At this point it's looking like you guys are actually coordinating your reported posts so that it's obvious that you're acting like the self protecting club that you're accused of being. Is that what's happening here? I'm impressed you didn't duplicate any reports between you, which also points to you coordinating your game here. But yes, right enough, that's the Verbed/Living/Heterodox MO that he always plays - total irritation, zero useful contribution.
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Post by silver on Jul 9, 2013 8:17:40 GMT -5
SilverBoth reported by Engima. Complaint: It seems to be intended as an empty insult with no information conveyed other than disagreement. Response: Agreed. Silver, did you forget to check which section of the board you were in? Engima's comment to Tzu (about ego claiming there is no ego) seems perfectly valid. What was your objection? I'd probably have let you off with the BS letters if you'd then go on to discuss why you thought Enigma was talking rubbish. Do think, for example, that Tzu does not possess any Ego or puffed up sense of "spiritual attainment"? You come over like you're just being unpleasant because you don't like Engima, or what he has to say. You add nothing to the discussion except a negative vibe. On the other hand, kudos for having the shortest ever reported post. Four characters. Record. That would be one ph.ucked up perspective. Complaint: Profanity. Response: Crikey, you really make my job easy some times. None of this has-he/hasn't he line crossing judgement call. Just an easy dash well over the line into swearing. Actually it's not particularly directed at anyone, so if this was all there was I'd have let you off with it. But taken together, action appears warranted. Swear filter tip: You don't need to put in a full stop if you're already spelling the word wrong. e Eg Phucked Up or F.ucked Up. That's a free tip by the way. Not really in the job description for being a moderator. Oh, you have material. Cool: As far as the swearing goes, I could've sworn I'd seen others posting in the mod. area with stuff like that, so I thought it was all perfectly okay. As for the above, working backwards, I'd say that's fairly assumptive of you to claim that this is the phirst time in ST history that a negative vibe was planted, tended, watered, fertilized, and voila! some terrible weed called negative vibe has sprouted. I'm pretty proud of some firsts, but if this were a first (which it isn't), I'd say the honor goes to me. As far as you saying that I don't like Enigma, this is not true. I don't think - even in the mod section - that being unpleasant is yet another no-no, because if that were true, well..... I don't think anyone possesses an ego including Tzu and I especially don't feel he has a puffed up sense of 'spiritual attainment'. Just yesterday, I removed all my bookmarks in the mod section cuz I was totally bored with it and the repetitive nature of the majority of the conversations and put them all on the unmod. side - not that I won't check them all out, but I don't need that stuff anymore - taking things a lot less seriously and etc., focusing elsewhere. FYI. |
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Post by andrew on Jul 9, 2013 8:18:35 GMT -5
Response:
I haven't lost my cool at all and neither am I looking for a ban. I can undoubtedly do 'above board, civil' debate and am willing to do so in the moderated section, but under the condition that there is no mocking, poking and prodding. There has been plenty of mocking, poking and prodding, but I haven't reported it because that's not really my way.
I don't know what else to say really. The moderated section requires substantial moderation IMO, I don't know if you have time or inclination to do that. I would probably rather talk in the unmoderated section but the main debates as yet have been in the moderated section.
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Post by Peter on Jul 9, 2013 8:32:21 GMT -5
As far as the swearing goes, I could've sworn I'd seen others posting in the mod. area with stuff like that, so I thought it was all perfectly okay. Well you know, I can't jump on every infraction or I'd never get anything else done, but that doesn't mean I think it's "Okay". I did say that - on it's own - I wouldn't have done anything with that particular reported post, but since there were so many of them, I sort of have to cover them all. I'd say that's fairly assumptive of you to claim that this is the phirst time in ST history that a negative vibe was planted, tended, watered, fertilized, and voila! some terrible weed called negative vibe has sprouted. I'm pretty proud of some firsts, but if this were a first (which it isn't), I'd say the honor goes to me. You didn't read my comment correctly there. I said that it was having a 4 character post reported which was a first. As far as you saying that I don't like Enigma, this is not true. I don't think - even in the mod section - that being unpleasant is yet another no-no, because if that were true, well..... I don't think anyone possesses an ego including Tzu and I especially don't feel he has a puffed up sense of 'spiritual attainment'. So you say "B.S." to Enigma's post because you "don't think that anyone possesses an ego? Well that would appear to be just nonsense. I've got mine right here. Look it's all shiny. I defended it just this morning against a barrage of obviously unjustified merit-less criticism  So, FYI if you are posting in the moderated section (which I know you'd not likely to do because you're bored with it), then you do need to add some justification to statements like "B.S." ie explain why you believe that to be the case. Otherwise what do we have here? |
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Post by silver on Jul 9, 2013 8:42:10 GMT -5
As far as the swearing goes, I could've sworn I'd seen others posting in the mod. area with stuff like that, so I thought it was all perfectly okay. Well you know, I can't jump on every infraction or I'd never get anything else done, but that doesn't mean I think it's "Okay". I did say that - on it's own - I wouldn't have done anything with that particular reported post, but since there were so many of them, I sort of have to cover them all. I'd say that's fairly assumptive of you to claim that this is the phirst time in ST history that a negative vibe was planted, tended, watered, fertilized, and voila! some terrible weed called negative vibe has sprouted. I'm pretty proud of some firsts, but if this were a first (which it isn't), I'd say the honor goes to me. You didn't read my comment correctly there. I said that it was having a 4 character post reported which was a first. As far as you saying that I don't like Enigma, this is not true. I don't think - even in the mod section - that being unpleasant is yet another no-no, because if that were true, well..... I don't think anyone possesses an ego including Tzu and I especially don't feel he has a puffed up sense of 'spiritual attainment'. So you say "B.S." to Enigma's post because you "don't think that anyone possesses an ego? Well that would appear to be just nonsense. I've got mine right here. Look it's all shiny. I defended it just this morning against a barrage of obviously unjustified merit-less criticism So, FYI if you are posting in the moderated section (which I know you'd not likely to do because you're bored with it), then you do need to add some justification to statements like "B.S." ie explain why you believe that to be the case. Otherwise what do we have here? For starters, once again, I could've easily reported at least one post probably many more, but I choose 99.9% of the time ah make it 100% (since the last time I reported anything) to take the High Road and let it slide/pass. Pretty much everything that Reefs and Enigma posted in my BP thread soo long ago was in toto extreme attacks in my vernacular. I took away what I could with all that stuff - I don't know why they can't do the same. Not sure why I'd be required to explain my "B.s." when especially Reefs and Enigma are often wont to make a declarative statement with little to no real explanation. Double-standard, in my eyes. But my eyes don't mean much around here, I guess.... I seriously don't think that Reefs and Enigma report stuff by their 'least favorites' around here to be conscientious but to get even with those they don't like....we're the ones that challenge them regularly, which doesn't seem to set well with 'em, at least that's what I've observed on a regular basis - just like clockwork they are. |
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Post by Peter on Jul 9, 2013 8:44:37 GMT -5
Response: I haven't lost my cool at all and neither am I looking for a ban. I can undoubtedly do 'above board, civil' debate and am willing to do so in the moderated section, but under the condition that there is no mocking, poking and prodding. There has been plenty of mocking, poking and prodding, but I haven't reported it because that's not really my way. I don't know what else to say really. The moderated section requires substantial moderation IMO, I don't know if you have time or inclination to do that. I would probably rather talk in the unmoderated section but the main debates as yet have been in the moderated section. Well you might think you've not lost your cool but you are definitely coming over like you have. Sure your blood pressure didn't go up a couple of points there? You'll say no of course, OK, forget it. Reporting posts might not be "your way" but I'm afraid it's currently being played against you and I am sort of bound to do something about it. Mocking I can moderate no problem. Point me to a post where you feel mocked and I can mark the complaints against you down as entirely justified retaliation. Poking on the other hand I see as being a legitimate part of the spiritual ...erm...thing we do here. As long as it's being done with a lack of violence, a smidgen of respect and the intention to help someone see something they might have missed. I would like to strongly encourage you to open yourself up to it as a spiritual practice. Answer the questions that "you" don't like/want to answer. In this particular case the question of "Do you see yourself as being 'ahead', the one to 'help' those less advanced than yourself?" seems like a helpful mirror to me. Prodding .... in my vocabulary that's something you do to get someone's attention when you think they've missed your post and is entirely harmless. If you have a different definition....then please use my definition instead |
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Post by Peter on Jul 9, 2013 8:50:50 GMT -5
Not sure why I'd be required to explain my "B.s." when especially Reefs and Enigma are often wont to make a declarative statement with little to no real explanation. Double-standard, in my eyes. But my eyes don't mean much around here, I guess.... Your eyes count as much as anyone else's do. So OK, go ahead and show me what you see. Give me a couple of examples of them doing what they've accused you of, and we can ask them how about it? I seriously don't think that Reefs and Enigma report stuff by their 'least favorites' around here to be conscientious but to get even with those they don't like....we're the ones that challenge them regularly, which doesn't seem to set well with 'em, at least that's what I've observed on a regular basis - just like clockwork they are. Oh for sure they're playing a game and generating more Drama than anyone else they've accused of creating Drama (you and me included). But there you go, my part has already been written - give or take a modicum of ad-libbing. |
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Post by silver on Jul 9, 2013 8:59:37 GMT -5
Not sure why I'd be required to explain my "B.s." when especially Reefs and Enigma are often wont to make a declarative statement with little to no real explanation. Double-standard, in my eyes. But my eyes don't mean much around here, I guess.... Your eyes count as much as anyone else's do. So OK, go ahead and show me what you see. Give me a couple of examples of them doing what they've accused you of, and we can ask them how about it? I won't dumpster dive - as I've already said, my boredom level has reached maximum capacity on the moderated side. What I really had in mind was something wren posted a couple of days ago, but I can quite readily imagine the invisible crowd cheering 'her' on. I suggest you might want to see if 'she's legit - ip? I don't know if the rules here are the same as on many forums, but having more than one is supposed to be a non-non, although we've seen it happen and it's been let slide which doesn't bother me in this imperfect world. Aside from their (Reefs and Enigma) usual proddings, pokings, pestering, and baiting, they're quite gentlemanly. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2013 9:03:58 GMT -5
VerbedReefs must not have gotten the big lollipop he wanted in the grocery store when he was 3 years old.... Complaint (Enigma): Seems purposefully insulting without attempting to add any information. Response: Enigma going to bat to defend Reefs here. Ahh, I love the smell of camaradarie in the morning. But yes, this is Verbed's usual MO of irritating snipe without any useful insight (the point being that insight has to be communicated in a way that can be understood if it is to be useful). Personally I find it extremely annoying when he does it to me, and I take that as a sign that my spiritual development has a long way to go. I'm greatful to him for it really, but not so greatful as that I'd want to keep my finger off the button when the time comes. I sometimes wonder how niz would have reacted to reefs had he made the trek to meet him. Probably would have butted out one of his beedes right between reefs' eyebrows. Complaint (Reefs): Moderation Required. Response: I don't even know what a beedes is. I'd have assumed testical, except that he's "butted" it, and you wouldn't headbutt a testical. Is is like some sort of lesson or teaching? Let me check that... nope can't find it. Possibly a mis-spelling of beads. No, I have no idea what is being suggested here. Can I assume it's not a nice thing? Is that too much assumption or is that a safe assumption? I think it's safe. Just in passing Reefs, I'm surprised - given that I've got 10 of them to work through - that you didn't also report Tzu for calling you 'pathetic'. Jeez Tzu. If your behaviour here is what you think of as "ahead" in some way, then you and I are not heading in the same direction. I seriously doubt the guy can even get dressed in the morning without a niz quote telling him to go about it. Complaint (Engima): Insult for the sake of insult. Response: Indeed it was, and it was directed at Reefs. At this point it's looking like you guys are actually coordinating your reported posts so that it's obvious that you're acting like the self protecting club that you're accused of being. Is that what's happening here? I'm impressed you didn't duplicate any reports between you, which also points to you coordinating your game here. But yes, right enough, that's the Verbed/Living/Heterodox MO that he always plays - total irritation, zero useful contribution. Hi Peter Looks like reefs and enigma are back to their old, time bound, worn out strategies. It wasn't even ten days ago that enigma proclaimed he hasn't reported a post since January. Old habits, and strategies are tough to get rid of, I guess. The fact that he's reporting posts again may be about his own lack of integrity. I'll ask him about it next time I see him onsite. If the post to reefs is read within the context of the discussion on his end, it can be seen that I'm pointing at his attention seeking baiting tactics. I've yet to meet the person on this path who would respond to this by suddenly waking up to who they really are. Beedes are the cigarettes Nisargadatta smoked. Reefs misuse of Niz's quotes (pointing at intention, here) probably would have been seen by the great master if reefs were to stand in his presence, and it's possible the master would have responded in such a manner as a result. I was simply pointing that out. A beede right between the eyebrows would get my attention, for sure. As to my niz quote remark- I've noticed a few of reefs 'new' acquaintances have taken to pointing out, whenever they are able, my use of Chopra's insights within the framework of discussions on the board. I feel his contributions are valid within the framework of non dual discussions. Reefs claims to be awake, but he hasn't learned to separate the moment from the situation. When his faux presence disintegrates, he falls back on Niz quotes. But even that isn't enough, and the niz quotes have to now be applied in ginormous, colored letters, but I sense he's actually overshadowing the experience of what is with what could be, or what was. If he actually embraced what is with his full attention, he would actually be immersed in fullness- instead of gigantic, colored (usually red) Niz quotes. Having said all that, I do have a tendency to see reefs as being pathetic. Enigma has a tendency to enable his behavior towards others, too. I don't know why he does that. |
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Post by andrew on Jul 9, 2013 9:07:22 GMT -5
Response: I haven't lost my cool at all and neither am I looking for a ban. I can undoubtedly do 'above board, civil' debate and am willing to do so in the moderated section, but under the condition that there is no mocking, poking and prodding. There has been plenty of mocking, poking and prodding, but I haven't reported it because that's not really my way. I don't know what else to say really. The moderated section requires substantial moderation IMO, I don't know if you have time or inclination to do that. I would probably rather talk in the unmoderated section but the main debates as yet have been in the moderated section. Well you might think you've not lost your cool but you are definitely coming over like you have. Sure your blood pressure didn't go up a couple of points there? You'll say no of course, OK, forget it. Reporting posts might not be "your way" but I'm afraid it's currently being played against you and I am sort of bound to do something about it. Mocking I can moderate no problem. Point me to a post where you feel mocked and I can mark the complaints against you down as entirely justified retaliation. Poking on the other hand I see as being a legitimate part of the spiritual ...erm...thing we do here. As long as it's being done with a lack of violence, a smidgen of respect and the intention to help someone see something they might have missed. I would like to strongly encourage you to open yourself up to it as a spiritual practice. Answer the questions that "you" don't like/want to answer. In this particular case the question of "Do you see yourself as being 'ahead', the one to 'help' those less advanced than yourself?" seems like a helpful mirror to me. Prodding .... in my vocabulary that's something you do to get someone's attention when you think they've missed your post and is entirely harmless. If you have a different definition....then please use my definition instead Problem is that its all very subjective isn't it. I'm not going digging for posts that I thought were mocking. I can handle pokes, and I get a lot, but I see 'provocation' here as well as 'poking', and I would say 'provocation' should be moderated. Again, I'm not going diving for examples. The fact that you allowed Reefs to perform the experiment in which he could see how far he could push me and Fig, suggests to me that what you call 'poking', I call 'provocation'. I probably belong in the unmoderated section if the moderated section continues the way it has in the last week, and that's really okay with me. |
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Post by silver on Jul 9, 2013 9:18:27 GMT -5
Yes, I did read it correctly, Peter, and I was trying to acknowledge yours and make my own separate comment regarding 'firsts' in hopes that my separate comment could be acknowledged and recognized for what it is I was trying to say about the negative vibe thingy.
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Post by Beingist on Jul 9, 2013 10:10:39 GMT -5
Interesting how, after an un-moderated section arises, that the moderated section now becomes full of tattle-tales.
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