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Post by topology on Jul 9, 2013 7:43:05 GMT -5
Troll, nobody wants you here. Please contribute to the discussion or leave. Thank you.
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Post by laughter on Jul 9, 2013 7:45:49 GMT -5
Well, I looked to my left, I looked to my right. I looked up, down, behind me and straight ahead. I even looked under my desk. Sorry dude ... just couldn't find a single fu.cking whiff, whisper or rumor of a f.ucking hint of a requirement for a f#cking theory for: The last bit was more for the people that might (or might not) try and come say something like, "You're just stuck to the idea of chocolate!" If that's not you, disregard it. I was cursing with you dude, not at you Chocolate gets sticky in the sun.
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Post by laughter on Jul 9, 2013 7:48:20 GMT -5
So - you come over to this side to be as childish as you can get? Hey, thanks for classing up the joint~* to put words in topo's mouth .... "yer welcomes!"
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Post by laughter on Jul 9, 2013 7:57:02 GMT -5
To clear this horsenuts up, what Compassionate Person quoted me as saying was not something I said, but it was also true. So stop douching around, because I had a serious question and I'm interested in how other people see this. This was the text in question, and after re-reading it Andrew's response seems accurate. I suppose I just have too many ideas of what the word mind means, mostly relating to imagination. It just strikes me as strange that the word Mind would be used in this context to explain the _____ness that is everything. For those that take the idea of actuality for actuality the pointer that they are imagining the taste of chocolate is useful as it might lead them to set aside what stands between them and the experience. Theories about "Essential Awareness", or any other objectification of (insert the blank) are just theories. The writer strikes me as someone waxing semi-poetically about the falling away of a boundary that they were carrying around.
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Post by laughter on Jul 9, 2013 8:01:26 GMT -5
I am that A sense of self (or sense of existence) is available only once attention is triggerd. Before attention arrives there is no sense of self. This is why even "I am that" is imagined. Try that on a ski slope. When you're going really fast.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jul 9, 2013 9:13:37 GMT -5
Troll, nobody wants you here. Please contribute to the discussion or leave. Thank you. Troll, sooner or later you will die from lack of attention. Please contribute to the discussions or leave.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jul 9, 2013 9:16:35 GMT -5
A sense of self (or sense of existence) is available only once attention is triggerd. Before attention arrives there is no sense of self. This is why even "I am that" is imagined. Try that on a ski slope. When you're going really fast. Try what? Please write your argument in full and then it's easier for me to respond.
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Post by topology on Jul 9, 2013 9:22:15 GMT -5
I am that A sense of self (or sense of existence) is available only once attention is triggerd. Before attention arrives there is no sense of self. This is why even "I am that" is imagined. If you have a memory of daydreaming or what the content of your experience was in the previous moment, then your attention was on already. What you are referring to is alertness of attention. How acute is the attention, what is being attended to, and other qualities of the attention. Self-consciousness can exist in low-grade attention. When someone is caught in continual worry, anxiety, etc. and other indicators of a strong sense of self, the kind of attention is not much different than day-dreaming, being lost in the stream of mental content. But the self-consciousness is high in those experiences. When someone is fully alert, present, all the attending faculties are at "full power", there is less thought, less being lost in thought, and less self-consciousness. Taken to completion of full attention, there is the loss of even the thought of "I exist" and there is only dynamic response to the situation being attended to.
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Post by laughter on Jul 9, 2013 9:24:33 GMT -5
Try that on a ski slope. When you're going really fast. Try what? Please write your argument in full and then it's easier for me to respond. What you're calling "attention" is actually self-reference. Resorting to self-reference in a time that demands attention, such as on a ski slope when going really fast, is about the dumbest move a person can make. "don't look down"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2013 9:26:17 GMT -5
A sense of self (or sense of existence) is available only once attention is triggered. Before attention arrives there is no sense of self. This is why even "I am that" is imagined. Within the framework of this discussion, would you say the following are the musings of someone in a simple state of awareness? What are they conscious of? What do they tell you? What differences do you see? Are the bricks in your house-- the ones that make up your walls-- conscious? Is waking consciousness also switched off in dream state? What is the difference between deep sleep and a memory blank? What happens in deep sleep? What does what I allegedly do have to do with your stuckness in rejection interpretations? Are those questions your own questions? Are 'we' maybe extrapolating here to justify 'our' own delineating and divvy-upping again? Because that would collapse your ontology?
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Post by topology on Jul 9, 2013 9:29:42 GMT -5
Troll, sooner or later you will die from lack of attention. Please contribute to the discussions or leave. I know you're smarter than this. What's the pattern to this interaction? ... ... I'll give you a hint. ... In order to die from a lack of attention, there has to be a lack of attention first. ... ... I'll give you another hint. ... Your response and the creation of a story-board is all this Troll (your description, not mine) needs to be fed.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jul 9, 2013 9:37:44 GMT -5
Try what? Please write your argument in full and then it's easier for me to respond. What you're calling "attention" is actually self-reference. Resorting to self-reference in a time that demands attention, such as on a ski slope when going really fast, is about the dumbest move a person can make. "don't look down" I'm not saying that all attention is necessarily "self-referential". I'm saying that sense of self and sense of existence are only operative once attention is on. And further I'm saying that the state prior to the attentive state is simpler and more natural, and requires much less effort. In ATA we constantly struggle to stay attentive, while to reach the non-attentive state no effort at all is required.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jul 9, 2013 9:38:46 GMT -5
Troll, sooner or later you will die from lack of attention. Please contribute to the discussions or leave. I know you're smarter than this. What's the pattern to this interaction? ... ... I'll give you a hint. ... In order to die from a lack of attention, there has to be a lack of attention first. ... ... I'll give you another hint. ... Your response and the creation of a story-board is all this Troll (your description, not mine) needs to be fed. Troll, please contribute or leave. Thank you.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jul 9, 2013 9:41:40 GMT -5
A sense of self (or sense of existence) is available only once attention is triggered. Before attention arrives there is no sense of self. This is why even "I am that" is imagined. Within the framework of this discussion, would you say the following are the musings of someone in a simple state of awareness? I'm sorry but I really can't be bothered with that kind of thing.
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Post by laughter on Jul 9, 2013 9:46:50 GMT -5
What you're calling "attention" is actually self-reference. Resorting to self-reference in a time that demands attention, such as on a ski slope when going really fast, is about the dumbest move a person can make. "don't look down" I'm not saying that all attention is necessarily "self-referential". I'm saying that sense of self and sense of existence are only operative once attention is on. And further I'm saying that the state prior to the attentive state is simpler and more natural, and requires much less effort. In ATA we constantly struggle to stay attentive, while to reach the non-attentive state no effort at all is required. Well if I indulge in the hypothetical it occurs to me that self-reference can be unconscious. That prior-to state can include this unconscious self-reference or not and it's reasonable to infer that the resulting state of "attention" would differ based on this. There's no use fighting you over the definition of the word "attention" beyond pointing out your unconventional usage ... in my studied analysis and humble opinion, you're not referring to the "attend" in ATA with your use of the word "attention".
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