|
Post by serpentqueen on Jul 16, 2013 10:47:39 GMT -5
I disagree for two reasons. In your view you're effectively equating attention with consciousness and so your point becomes purely conceptual and without respect for actual experience, namely that there clearly are instances where we are not attentive to anything at all. Can you give an example of something you're thinking of here? For example, dreaming (during REM cycle). It seems to me there is attention happening during dreaming. I'm finding it hard to think of a moment when there isn't attention to something. But it sounds like you have some readily available? Dreaming is an example of unfocused attending. When you unfocus, all kinds of interesting stuff arises. Unfocused attending is an allowing state. When people here use "attending" I get the impression they are suggesting one must focus a lot? I could be wrong.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2013 11:16:07 GMT -5
Can you give an example of something you're thinking of here? For example, dreaming (during REM cycle). It seems to me there is attention happening during dreaming. I'm finding it hard to think of a moment when there isn't attention to something. But it sounds like you have some readily available? Dreaming is an example of unfocused attending. When you unfocus, all kinds of interesting stuff arises. Unfocused attending is an allowing state. When people here use "attending" I get the impression they are suggesting one must focus a lot? I could be wrong. Well ZD does talk about becoming a giant ear when ATA / sound. And when mamza does ATA he lies in the middle of the road, keenly alert as to an approaching car. Methinks you can go narrow or broaden with ATA, in terms of focus. You can relax the focus completely and bring in everything (minus thinking) or you can go microscopic. The unfocused attention you mention reminds me of a fellow here -- michaelsees -- who liked to hunt bunnies (for real). He spoke of the hunter's eye or somesuch. I know that from birdwatching. An attentive, alert, yet totally relaxed focus allows for seeing what's happening all around. But whether it's a relaxed or narrow focus, attention is present isn't it? Compassionate Person seems to be arguing that there are states of consciousness absent attention. I don't doubt it, I just can't think of an example right now.
|
|
|
Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jul 16, 2013 13:26:06 GMT -5
I disagree for two reasons. In your view you're effectively equating attention with consciousness and so your point becomes purely conceptual and without respect for actual experience, namely that there clearly are instances where we are not attentive to anything at all. Can you give an example of something you're thinking of here? For example, dreaming (during REM cycle). It seems to me there is attention happening during dreaming. I'm finding it hard to think of a moment when there isn't attention to something. But it sounds like you have some readily available? You can look right now. Look at an object, then notice that while you are looking at it there are a bunch of other object in the periphery that you're not attentive to. We've discussed this before in some qualia thread last year.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2013 13:29:27 GMT -5
Can you give an example of something you're thinking of here? For example, dreaming (during REM cycle). It seems to me there is attention happening during dreaming. I'm finding it hard to think of a moment when there isn't attention to something. But it sounds like you have some readily available? You can look right now. Look at an object, then notice that while you are looking at it there are a bunch of other object in the periphery that you're not attentive to. We've discussed this before in some qualia thread last year. But that was more around distinguishing attention and focus. When I focus on this cursor, I am able to be both attentive to it and to the periphery, for example a throbbing in the thigh. I retain a focus on the blinking cursor, but generally awash or attentive of all sorts of other sensations. It sounds like you're saying that attention is more like what you are focused on?
|
|
|
Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jul 16, 2013 13:49:08 GMT -5
You can look right now. Look at an object, then notice that while you are looking at it there are a bunch of other object in the periphery that you're not attentive to. We've discussed this before in some qualia thread last year. But that was more around distinguishing attention and focus. When I focus on this cursor, I am able to be both attentive to it and to the periphery, for example a throbbing in the thigh. I retain a focus on the blinking cursor, but generally awash or attentive of all sorts of other sensations. It sounds like you're saying that attention is more like what you are focused on? Do your homework and read the old thread again.
|
|
|
Post by topology on Jul 16, 2013 14:54:55 GMT -5
Can you give an example of something you're thinking of here? For example, dreaming (during REM cycle). It seems to me there is attention happening during dreaming. I'm finding it hard to think of a moment when there isn't attention to something. But it sounds like you have some readily available? You can look right now. Look at an object, then notice that while you are looking at it there are a bunch of other object in the periphery that you're not attentive to. We've discussed this before in some qualia thread last year. What objects in the periphery? You mean the fuzzy colors in the peripheral vision that evoke the memory of a cup of water being on the desk? Or are you talking about that there is a door behind me that is not in my visual experience because I am looking in the opposite direction? All present qualia is attended to, all the time. That the qualia in the periphery does not evoke the "cup" quale or "cup"-thought does not mean that attention was absent from the experience. The accumulated mental-model of the scene is used to interpret qualia which does not evoke clear identity. The idea of in-attention you are presenting relies on that mental model interacting with the memory of the experience to conclude "Oh I didn't experience anything about the cup there, I must have been inattentive." This is inference. Attention was occurring for whatever qualia was present.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2013 7:17:54 GMT -5
But that was more around distinguishing attention and focus. When I focus on this cursor, I am able to be both attentive to it and to the periphery, for example a throbbing in the thigh. I retain a focus on the blinking cursor, but generally awash or attentive of all sorts of other sensations. It sounds like you're saying that attention is more like what you are focused on? Do your homework and read the old thread again. Yes Master, right away Master!
|
|