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Post by justlikeyou on Jul 6, 2013 8:56:28 GMT -5
Consciousness is not present during deep sleep. I assume when you are trying to find your way home, that you are conscious? Has there never been a time in your life when you have been conscious while not thinking or knowing anything, even if just for a moment? Yes, it happens all the time. I no longer have to think to drive my car, driving happens. I can look at things without naming them, seeing happens. I can walk around a hole in the ground without resorting to a single thought, intelligent movement happens. Perception does not require thinking to be knowing or seeing. But to add a door to my chicken coop I have to think and visualize before it happens. I can't yet make miracles :-)
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 6, 2013 9:32:00 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Ego is an imagined condition.. it does not exist, it's meaning varies among its believers.. Be well.. Yes, When the one identifies with the illusory ego and makes an identity of it, this is the illusion of person-hood many here point to. It is 'your' unique identity, your 'person-hood' that exerts its influence on Life through its interaction with Life.. the 'you' that is unique unto itself is a force that shapes 'what is actually happening'.. ego is a 'belief about' that which is 'you'.. Be well..
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Post by silence on Jul 6, 2013 9:57:39 GMT -5
What's the nature of the question, and what's the nature of question mark ? The nature of the question mark?.....Really? He has learned much from Sri Andrew-son and Sri Bill Clinton-Son
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Post by silence on Jul 6, 2013 10:02:20 GMT -5
Has there never been a time in your life when you have been conscious while not thinking or knowing anything, even if just for a moment? Of course. There's relatively little that needs to be done that requires thinking. Even much of the posting here consists of seeing, and the mind comes up with silly words to talk about what is being seen. But it doesn't seem like we've been talking about relaxing the thinking process or Tzu's meditation experiences. We've gone whole hog into not knowing anything, and that's where some of us are drawing a line in the sand. I don't need a thinking process to find my way home (usually) but I know how to get home. I know where I am and what street to turn on and where the cops are likely to be hiding with their radar. I know all sorts of stuff and this knowledge is being used without a particularly conscious acknowledgement or manipulation of those thoughts, but that doesn't mean the thoughts aren't happening. It doesn't mean i can just lay back in the drivers seat and go into deep sleep and still expect to arrive at home in my driveway. (Which, BTW, I know is my driveway) Relax the thinking. Good on you. Don't turn it into a religion or sumthin. Right. It continues to amaze me how people seem to subtly conclude that spirituality demands they suppress their common sense.
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Post by Reefs on Jul 6, 2013 10:04:34 GMT -5
The nature of the question mark?.....Really? He has learned much from Sri Andrew-son and Sri Bill Clinton-Son I got exactly the same impression from his latest posts. Maybe he wants Andrew's '00A license' (Double-Oh-A license), the license to have your idea cake and eat it too.
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Post by silence on Jul 6, 2013 10:28:00 GMT -5
Has there never been a time in your life when you have been conscious while not thinking or knowing anything, even if just for a moment? Yes, it happens all the time. I no longer have to think to drive my car, driving happens. I can look at things without naming them, seeing happens. I can walk around a hole in the ground without resorting to a single thought, intelligent movement happens. Perception does not require thinking to be knowing or seeing. But to add a door to my chicken coop I have to think and visualize before it happens. I can't yet make miracles :-) Yes, even highly neurotic, insomniac, over thinkers can usually drive to and from work without having to fire up the "how do I get there" thought process. This however doesn't mean that knowledge isn't being drawn upon and if you hit your head and got amnesia one day or got alzheimers, this might become glaringly apparent to you. In the same way, the naming process happens automatically to allow you to divvy up your visual field and recognize separate objects. Even in the absence of recognzing an object from another, two eyes are producing one image and there is constant manipulation happening in what most would call undistorted vision.
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Post by justlikeyou on Jul 6, 2013 11:07:44 GMT -5
Greetings.. Yes, When the one identifies with the illusory ego and makes an identity of it, this is the illusion of person-hood many here point to. It is 'your' unique identity, your 'person-hood' that exerts its influence on Life through its interaction with Life.. the 'you' that is unique unto itself is a force that shapes 'what is actually happening'.. ego is a 'belief about' that which is 'you'.. Be well.. I agree that personhood is a unique expression. No doubt. As I see it, personhood is the unique aircraft, and who you really are is the Pilot inside the aircraft. When the Pilot ejects, the aircraft crashes and ceases to be an aircraft. Mistaking yourself as one with the aircraft you are liable to crash and burn too (figuratively, though not really). But knowing that you are not the aircraft, you can eject safely when it runs out of fuel. This is how I see it, and its OK if you do not see it my way. I won't try to convince you and I respectfully ask that you do not try to convince me. I am sure there are other things we can agree on, so lets not let this one thing get in our way, ok?
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Post by enigma on Jul 6, 2013 11:54:04 GMT -5
Greetings.. Yes, When the one identifies with the illusory ego and makes an identity of it, this is the illusion of person-hood many here point to. It is 'your' unique identity, your 'person-hood' that exerts its influence on Life through its interaction with Life.. the 'you' that is unique unto itself is a force that shapes 'what is actually happening'.. ego is a 'belief about' that which is 'you'.. Be well.. This is ego looking around and saying, 'Ego, what ego?'
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Post by justlikeyou on Jul 6, 2013 11:57:49 GMT -5
Greetings.. It is 'your' unique identity, your 'person-hood' that exerts its influence on Life through its interaction with Life.. the 'you' that is unique unto itself is a force that shapes 'what is actually happening'.. ego is a 'belief about' that which is 'you'.. Be well.. This is ego looking around and saying, 'Ego, what ego?' Now that's as funny as it is true. You win the prize for the first belly laugh of the day. Thanks!
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Post by silver on Jul 6, 2013 11:59:02 GMT -5
Greetings.. It is 'your' unique identity, your 'person-hood' that exerts its influence on Life through its interaction with Life.. the 'you' that is unique unto itself is a force that shapes 'what is actually happening'.. ego is a 'belief about' that which is 'you'.. Be well.. This is ego looking around and saying, 'Ego, what ego?' B.s.
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Post by enigma on Jul 6, 2013 12:04:39 GMT -5
Of course. There's relatively little that needs to be done that requires thinking. Even much of the posting here consists of seeing, and the mind comes up with silly words to talk about what is being seen. But it doesn't seem like we've been talking about relaxing the thinking process or Tzu's meditation experiences. We've gone whole hog into not knowing anything, and that's where some of us are drawing a line in the sand. I don't need a thinking process to find my way home (usually) but I know how to get home. I know where I am and what street to turn on and where the cops are likely to be hiding with their radar. I know all sorts of stuff and this knowledge is being used without a particularly conscious acknowledgement or manipulation of those thoughts, but that doesn't mean the thoughts aren't happening. It doesn't mean i can just lay back in the drivers seat and go into deep sleep and still expect to arrive at home in my driveway. (Which, BTW, I know is my driveway) Relax the thinking. Good on you. Don't turn it into a religion or sumthin. Right. It continues to amaze me how people seem to subtly conclude that spirituality demands they suppress their common sense. Yes, it looks like folks are seeking some wacky woo woo mind state where everything gets turned on it's head because this ordinary mundane actuality can't really be what they want. The gurus with their pointers seem to have fed into this tendency.
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Post by relinquish on Jul 6, 2013 18:26:04 GMT -5
All that is 'known' arises only out of memory. Memory is essentially an echo (in the head) of 'What WAS', which, by definition, no longer really IS. It is PAST. In other words, there isn't anything 'known' that actually exists Now. Now has NEVER happened before, and it will NEVER happen again. Only after the fact, Now can become known.
From out of this growing collection of physical imprints on the brain arises the imaginary events of the FUTURE. These are stories that play out in all of our heads about what WILL and/or MIGHT happen, which by definition, not yet IS. Because the furture has never happened before either, it is, like the Now, infinitely unknowable, so all thoughts about it can only EVER be imaginings. We don't REALLY know what's going to happen.
'Information' that may be stored in the brain Now is in no way actually present as something that is known in direct experience until it is 'reactivated' by particular stimuli. One can not simply study a persons brain to learn of everything that person knew. The physical imprints that correspond to certain information are not actually identical to that information when it is not arising as a thought. What is known is only REALLY known when it is the current thought.
What is happening NOW can NEVER be the current thought during the fact.
That is why I point to what REALLY is by saying, 'Behold, the unknown'.
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 6, 2013 18:36:47 GMT -5
Greetings.. All that is 'known' arises only out of memory. Memory is essentially an echo (in the head) of 'What WAS', which, by definition, no longer really IS. It is PAST. In other words, there isn't anything 'known' that actually exists Now. Now has NEVER happened before, and it will NEVER happen again. Only after the fact, Now can become known. From out of this growing collection of physical imprints on the brain arises the imaginary events of the FUTURE. These are stories that play out in all of our heads about what WILL and/or MIGHT happen, which by definition, not yet IS. Because the furture has never happened before either, it is, like the Now, infinitely unknowable, so all thoughts about it can only EVER be imaginings. We don't REALLY know what's going to happen. 'Information' that may be stored in the brain Now is in no way actually present as something that is known in direct experience until it is 'reactivated' by particular stimuli. One can not simply study a persons brain to learn of everything that person knew. The physical imprints that correspond to certain information are not actually identical to that information when it is not arising as a thought. What is known is only REALLY known when it is the current thought. What is happening NOW can NEVER be the current thought during the fact.That is why I point to what REALLY is by saying, 'Behold, the unknown'. I can understand what you think you understand, it would seem so to someone 'thinking about' what happened.. it's different when the thought IS what's happening.. Be well..
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Post by relinquish on Jul 6, 2013 19:08:11 GMT -5
Greetings.. All that is 'known' arises only out of memory. Memory is essentially an echo (in the head) of 'What WAS', which, by definition, no longer really IS. It is PAST. In other words, there isn't anything 'known' that actually exists Now. Now has NEVER happened before, and it will NEVER happen again. Only after the fact, Now can become known. From out of this growing collection of physical imprints on the brain arises the imaginary events of the FUTURE. These are stories that play out in all of our heads about what WILL and/or MIGHT happen, which by definition, not yet IS. Because the furture has never happened before either, it is, like the Now, infinitely unknowable, so all thoughts about it can only EVER be imaginings. We don't REALLY know what's going to happen. 'Information' that may be stored in the brain Now is in no way actually present as something that is known in direct experience until it is 'reactivated' by particular stimuli. One can not simply study a persons brain to learn of everything that person knew. The physical imprints that correspond to certain information are not actually identical to that information when it is not arising as a thought. What is known is only REALLY known when it is the current thought. What is happening NOW can NEVER be the current thought during the fact.That is why I point to what REALLY is by saying, 'Behold, the unknown'. I can understand what you think you understand, it would seem so to someone 'thinking about' what happened.. it's different when the thought IS what's happening.. Be well.. Behold, the unknown. ;D
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 6, 2013 19:29:23 GMT -5
Greetings,, Greetings.. I can understand what you think you understand, it would seem so to someone 'thinking about' what happened.. it's different when the thought IS what's happening.. Be well.. Behold, the unknown. ;D Don't bother labeling 'it'.. just pay attention.. when there is 'unknown', there is 'known', stop at 'is'.. Be well..
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