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Post by enigma on Jul 6, 2013 0:36:20 GMT -5
How is Ego related to Knowing and Understanding? Most here will probably agree that the primary function of Ego is the survival of the BodyMind, I would say that the ego creates both the BodyMind and the environment that it exists in, which are all functionally one. Can Ego exist without "Knowing"? Are Ego and Knowing the same thing? In the absence of Knowing, where is Ego? Ego is a set of self referential thoughts in mind. How can it create mind?
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Post by Reefs on Jul 6, 2013 0:37:53 GMT -5
Are those your own questions? What's the nature of the question, and what's the nature of question mark ? Oki-doki desu. Was really great talking to you.
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Post by steven on Jul 6, 2013 0:40:46 GMT -5
How is Ego related to Knowing and Understanding? Most here will probably agree that the primary function of Ego is the survival of the BodyMind, I would say that the ego creates both the BodyMind and the environment that it exists in, which are all functionally one. Can Ego exist without "Knowing"? Are Ego and Knowing the same thing? In the absence of Knowing, where is Ego? Ego is a set of self referential thoughts in mind. How can it create mind? What is Mind? Perhaps a better wording on my part, is that ego is the mode or means of creation of the BodyMind and its environment, Knowing is the medium and the canvas that Self is both painted on, and with, take away Knowing, and what is left?... God is the Creator :-) Haha, sound reasonable, but I'll go back to not knowing now ;-)
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Post by enigma on Jul 6, 2013 0:42:02 GMT -5
What is your view on the connection between "Knowing", and Ego, or Selfhood, or Existence? None that I can think of.
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Post by enigma on Jul 6, 2013 0:57:18 GMT -5
Greetings.. Do you ever leave your house? If so, how do you find your way home? What do you 'know' during intervals of deep and dreamless sleep?.. i'm not not asking what is known before or after the interval of deep sleep, what do you 'know' during deep dreamless sleep, or under anesthesia? Be well.. Consciousness is not present during deep sleep. I assume when you are trying to find your way home, that you are conscious?
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Post by enigma on Jul 6, 2013 1:02:00 GMT -5
Are those your own questions? What's the nature of the question, and what's the nature of question mark ? The nature of the question mark?.....Really?
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Post by steven on Jul 6, 2013 1:03:02 GMT -5
Greetings.. What do you 'know' during intervals of deep and dreamless sleep?.. i'm not not asking what is known before or after the interval of deep sleep, what do you 'know' during deep dreamless sleep, or under anesthesia? Be well.. Consciousness is not present during deep sleep. I assume when you are trying to find your way home, that you are conscious? Has there never been a time in your life when you have been conscious while not thinking or knowing anything, even if just for a moment?
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Post by amit on Jul 6, 2013 1:04:43 GMT -5
How is Ego related to Knowing and Understanding? Most here will probably agree that the primary function of Ego is the survival of the BodyMind, I would say that the ego creates both the BodyMind and the environment that it exists in, which are all functionally one. Can Ego exist without "Knowing"? Are Ego and Knowing the same thing? In the absence of Knowing, where is Ego? Hi Steven, Ego is merely a shorthand term. If we can understand what we each mean by it for the purposes of discussion, then we can usefully use it as shorthand. I use the word as shorthand for the following:- "....mind constructs a character for defensive purposes. In that view the constructed character is referred to as Ego. The construction is indeed a fiction but it has a purpose and mind constructs it for that purpose. It is not a construction without value. If one could experience the life of another one would understand the nature of that others Ego and why it was necessary. The Ego is a valuable defense mechanism not to be attacked and derided as though it was a criminal intent on destroying you. Rather it is the opposite according to the view being expressed here" So in this scenario the mind thinks it knows when the organism (including itself) is threatened. That would be the connection between knowing and the construction of Ego in this view. What is your definition of Ego? amit
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Post by steven on Jul 6, 2013 1:05:45 GMT -5
What's the nature of the question, and what's the nature of question mark ? The nature of the question mark?.....Really? What happens in that very first moment, immediately after you read: nature of the question mark? was there no "gap" of not knowing or stillness, even if it was just a split second before mentation started? Reef's answer is in that pause.
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Post by enigma on Jul 6, 2013 1:14:04 GMT -5
Ego is a set of self referential thoughts in mind. How can it create mind? What is Mind? I'd say it's the process of cognition; the movement of thoughts, of which ego is a part. Perhaps we could say the world is fundamentally conceptual in the largest (impersonal) context, and individuated minds form their own mental/emotional worlds based on it, and then mostly live in them. The later may be an outgrowth of self identification, but the former is there with or without ego. The infant, who has no self identity, still perceives a body and a world.
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Post by enigma on Jul 6, 2013 1:30:35 GMT -5
Consciousness is not present during deep sleep. I assume when you are trying to find your way home, that you are conscious? Has there never been a time in your life when you have been conscious while not thinking or knowing anything, even if just for a moment? Of course. There's relatively little that needs to be done that requires thinking. Even much of the posting here consists of seeing, and the mind comes up with silly words to talk about what is being seen. But it doesn't seem like we've been talking about relaxing the thinking process or Tzu's meditation experiences. We've gone whole hog into not knowing anything, and that's where some of us are drawing a line in the sand. I don't need a thinking process to find my way home (usually) but I know how to get home. I know where I am and what street to turn on and where the cops are likely to be hiding with their radar. I know all sorts of stuff and this knowledge is being used without a particularly conscious acknowledgement or manipulation of those thoughts, but that doesn't mean the thoughts aren't happening. It doesn't mean i can just lay back in the drivers seat and go into deep sleep and still expect to arrive at home in my driveway. (Which, BTW, I know is my driveway) Relax the thinking. Good on you. Don't turn it into a religion or sumthin.
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Post by enigma on Jul 6, 2013 1:36:14 GMT -5
The nature of the question mark?.....Really? What happens in that very first moment, immediately after you read: nature of the question mark? was there no "gap" of not knowing or stillness, even if it was just a split second before mentation started? Reef's answer is in that pause. Very clever n all, but his question was "Are those your own questions?"
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Post by steven on Jul 6, 2013 1:57:47 GMT -5
How is Ego related to Knowing and Understanding? Most here will probably agree that the primary function of Ego is the survival of the BodyMind, I would say that the ego creates both the BodyMind and the environment that it exists in, which are all functionally one. Can Ego exist without "Knowing"? Are Ego and Knowing the same thing? In the absence of Knowing, where is Ego? Hi Steven, Ego is merely a shorthand term. If we can understand what we each mean by it for the purposes of discussion, then we can usefully use it as shorthand. I use the word as shorthand for the following:- "....mind constructs a character for defensive purposes. In that view the constructed character is referred to as Ego. The construction is indeed a fiction but it has a purpose and mind constructs it for that purpose. It is not a construction without value. If one could experience the life of another one would understand the nature of that others Ego and why it was necessary. The Ego is a valuable defense mechanism not to be attacked and derided as though it was a criminal intent on destroying you. Rather it is the opposite according to the view being expressed here" So in this scenario the mind thinks it knows when the organism (including itself) is threatened. That would be the connection between knowing and the construction of Ego in this view. What is your definition of Ego? amit Hi Amit, For the purposes of this conversation, I said we would define ego as being the source the maintaining of the illusion of Self or Individuation.
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Post by amit on Jul 6, 2013 2:26:21 GMT -5
Hi Steven, Ego is merely a shorthand term. If we can understand what we each mean by it for the purposes of discussion, then we can usefully use it as shorthand. I use the word as shorthand for the following:- "....mind constructs a character for defensive purposes. In that view the constructed character is referred to as Ego. The construction is indeed a fiction but it has a purpose and mind constructs it for that purpose. It is not a construction without value. If one could experience the life of another one would understand the nature of that others Ego and why it was necessary. The Ego is a valuable defense mechanism not to be attacked and derided as though it was a criminal intent on destroying you. Rather it is the opposite according to the view being expressed here" So in this scenario the mind thinks it knows when the organism (including itself) is threatened. That would be the connection between knowing and the construction of Ego in this view. What is your definition of Ego? amit Hi Amit, For the purposes of this conversation, I said we would define ego as being the source the maintaining of the illusion of Self or Individuation. Hi Steven, Understood. Thanks. Amits use of words:- Mind = That which monitors and tries to find and apply solutions for discomfort. Character/Self/Individual/Personality = All terms for Ego as defined earlier in the thread. Our definitions are somewhat different in the sense that for me mind creates, monitors, and adjusts the character we present to the outside world for defensive purposes. So in this view the source of Ego is Mind Our meanings do not have to be the same for the purposes of discussion as long as we know what the differences are. What is your definition of Mind? amit
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Post by justlikeyou on Jul 6, 2013 8:39:56 GMT -5
Greetings.. How is Ego related to Knowing and Understanding? Most here will probably agree that the primary function of Ego is the survival of the BodyMind, I would say that the ego creates both the BodyMind and the environment that it exists in, which are all functionally one. Can Ego exist without "Knowing"? Are Ego and Knowing the same thing? In the absence of Knowing, where is Ego? Ego is an imagined condition.. it does not exist, it's meaning varies among its believers.. Be well.. Yes, When the one identifies with the illusory ego and makes an identity of it, this is the illusion of person-hood many here point to.
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