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Post by laughter on Jul 2, 2013 15:56:41 GMT -5
It seems to me that the body is quite interested in pleasure and ecstasy. Did UG have wife and kids? I would concur, this body is still interested in pleasurable sensations. pleasure happens, pain happens. The body preserves itself, but it's not the body that constantly creates strategies for avoiding pain and arranging pleasure.
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Post by Steven on Jul 2, 2013 21:09:27 GMT -5
Seems to me like UG was holding onto too much knowledge about Mind versus Body....I don't perceive any desperation whatsoever. Here are some experiments to try: See if its possible for you to have ANY kind of thought that does not involve one or more of the five senses in some way. Also, see if you can experience any of the five senses as anything other than something that is referencing in your Mind. Even Science has shown, that ALL senses register in the Mind, and without a Mind that can "receive" one of the five senses, no sense is perceived. What this means relative to UG's quote, is that without Mind, no pleasure or pain is possible. All suffering, even TZU's random wasp sting, is an affect of Mind on both a function level, and a cause and effect level....on the level of function, Sensate experience do not occur without Mind, and are therefore not separate from Mind, but even on the cause and effect level, an alert, "care full" Mind that's functioning in harmony, is not likely to get stung by a Wasp, and if it does, it does not "suffer" over it. This is what UG "seems" to be alluding to: Mind is the Source of both suffering and pleasure, and the seeker of both. In talking about "the body's" lack of seeking of pleasure, he is really referencing Mind activity. As regards his speech on hopelessness, it's a kind of finger pointing, meaning it is a "method" that he is referring to, and it's not dis-similar to when I exhort people to give up "knowing", or pointing out that they "know" too much. Whatsoever you hold onto, absorbs you in Mind, whether that is some bit of Knowledge, or Understanding, or Experience, or Hope of success in accomplishing something, even if what you "know" or experience is a realization that is informed by what "seems" to be beyond mind. Peter....I love ya bro...but STOP deleting my posts in this section you phucking phucktard :-) I very much respect your "rule of law" approach, but this is an "unmoderated" section, that also allows one to post as a "guest", I did not create an account to make this post, so I am within the "rule of law" to post here :-) As an aside, I apologize for saying in the PM that I would not post anything with the Esteban account, by way of explanation, I fully intended to honor that when it was written....but Enigma's joke about not knowing what a calendar was anymore was actually pretty accurate lol....I had spent almost that entire day with no knowledge or recognition of anything, total idiocy for the whole day,so those posts just kinda happened all on their own, except for the very last one. Still though, it's probably not inappropriate to add on another week to my Steven Account and General Discussion forum ban Back to the UG Quote, you guys try for yourself, and see if you can have ANY type of thought that does not involve, or relate to the five senses, and see if you can perceive any of the five senses as registering anywhere but inside your Mind. It's not a big leap from there to seeing that all sensory perception is a Mind function, just as other types of thoughts and imaginations are. And from there, it's not a big leap to see how EVERYTHING is a function of, or inclusion of Mind.....EVERYTHING IS MIND :-) Now, go and hopelessly unknow all of that
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Post by Steven on Jul 2, 2013 21:11:38 GMT -5
Seems to me like UG was holding onto too much knowledge about Mind versus Body....I don't perceive any separationwhatsoever. Here are some experiments to try: See if its possible for you to have ANY kind of thought that does not involve one or more of the five senses in some way. Also, see if you can experience any of the five senses as anything other than something that is referencing in your Mind. Even Science has shown, that ALL senses register in the Mind, and without a Mind that can "receive" one of the five senses, no sense is perceived. What this means relative to UG's quote, is that without Mind, no pleasure or pain is possible. All suffering, even TZU's random wasp sting, is an affect of Mind on both a function level, and a cause and effect level....on the level of function, Sensate experience do not occur without Mind, and are therefore not separate from Mind, but even on the cause and effect level, an alert, "care full" Mind that's functioning in harmony, is not likely to get stung by a Wasp, and if it does, it does not "suffer" over it. This is what UG "seems" to be alluding to: Mind is the Source of both suffering and pleasure, and the seeker of both. In talking about "the body's" lack of seeking of pleasure, he is really referencing Mind activity. As regards his speech on hopelessness, it's a kind of finger pointing, meaning it is a "method" that he is referring to, and it's not dis-similar to when I exhort people to give up "knowing", or pointing out that they "know" too much. Whatsoever you hold onto, absorbs you in Mind, whether that is some bit of Knowledge, or Understanding, or Experience, or Hope of success in accomplishing something, even if what you "know" or experience is a realization that is informed by what "seems" to be beyond mind. Peter....I love ya bro...but STOP deleting my posts in this section you phucking phucktard :-) I very much respect your "rule of law" approach, but this is an "unmoderated" section, that also allows one to post as a "guest", I did not create an account to make this post, so I am within the "rule of law" to post here :-) As an aside, I apologize for saying in the PM that I would not post anything with the Esteban account, by way of explanation, I fully intended to honor that when it was written....but Enigma's joke about not knowing what a calendar was anymore was actually pretty accurate lol....I had spent almost that entire day with no knowledge or recognition of anything, total idiocy for the whole day,so those posts just kinda happened all on their own, except for the very last one. Still though, it's probably not inappropriate to add on another week to my Steven Account and General Discussion forum ban :-/ Back to the UG Quote, you guys try for yourself, and see if you can have ANY type of thought that does not involve, or relate to the five senses, and see if you can perceive any of the five senses as registering anywhere but inside your Mind. It's not a big leap from there to seeing that all sensory perception is a Mind function, just as other types of thoughts and imaginations are. And from there, it's not a big leap to see how EVERYTHING is a function of, or inclusion of Mind.....EVERYTHING IS MIND :-) Now, go and hopelessly unknow all of that :P
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Post by Beingist on Jul 2, 2013 21:15:06 GMT -5
Tathagata has returned.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2013 21:21:33 GMT -5
Seems to me like UG was holding onto too much knowledge about Mind versus Body....I don't perceive any desperation whatsoever. Here are some experiments to try: See if its possible for you to have ANY kind of thought that does not involve one or more of the five senses in some way. Also, see if you can experience any of the five senses as anything other than something that is referencing in your Mind. Even Science has shown, that ALL senses register in the Mind, and without a Mind that can "receive" one of the five senses, no sense is perceived. What this means relative to UG's quote, is that without Mind, no pleasure or pain is possible. All suffering, even TZU's random wasp sting, is an affect of Mind on both a function level, and a cause and effect level....on the level of function, Sensate experience do not occur without Mind, and are therefore not separate from Mind, but even on the cause and effect level, an alert, "care full" Mind that's functioning in harmony, is not likely to get stung by a Wasp, and if it does, it does not "suffer" over it. This is what UG "seems" to be alluding to: Mind is the Source of both suffering and pleasure, and the seeker of both. In talking about "the body's" lack of seeking of pleasure, he is really referencing Mind activity. As regards his speech on hopelessness, it's a kind of finger pointing, meaning it is a "method" that he is referring to, and it's not dis-similar to when I exhort people to give up "knowing", or pointing out that they "know" too much.Whatsoever you hold onto, absorbs you in Mind, whether that is some bit of Knowledge, or Understanding, or Experience, or Hope of success in accomplishing something, even if what you "know" or experience is a realization that is informed by what "seems" to be beyond mind.Peter....I love ya bro...but STOP deleting my posts in this section you phucking phucktard :-) I very much respect your "rule of law" approach, but this is an "unmoderated" section, that also allows one to post as a "guest", I did not create an account to make this post, so I am within the "rule of law" to post here :-) As an aside, I apologize for saying in the PM that I would not post anything with the Esteban account, by way of explanation, I fully intended to honor that when it was written....but Enigma's joke about not knowing what a calendar was anymore was actually pretty accurate lol....I had spent almost that entire day with no knowledge or recognition of anything, total idiocy for the whole day,so those posts just kinda happened all on their own, except for the very last one. Still though, it's probably not inappropriate to add on another week to my Steven Account and General Discussion forum ban Back to the UG Quote, you guys try for yourself, and see if you can have ANY type of thought that does not involve, or relate to the five senses, and see if you can perceive any of the five senses as registering anywhere but inside your Mind.It's not a big leap from there to seeing that all sensory perception is a Mind function, just as other types of thoughts and imaginations are.And from there, it's not a big leap to see how EVERYTHING is a function of, or inclusion of Mind.....EVERYTHING IS MIND :-) Now, go and hopelessly unknow all of that If you want us to un-know stuff why are you forcing this knowledge on us... IOW you know too much
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Post by Steven on Jul 2, 2013 21:22:41 GMT -5
What does that mean to you....and why do you have that meaning? what purpose does it serve for you, and what benefit does this type of collating and categorizing supply you with, if there is any of that going on over there :-)
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Post by Beingist on Jul 2, 2013 21:24:20 GMT -5
What does that mean to you....and why do you have that meaning? what purpose does it serve for you, and what benefit does this type of collating and categorizing supply you with, if there is any of that going on over there :-) Why are you looking for meaning?
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Post by Steven on Jul 2, 2013 21:35:42 GMT -5
Seems to me like UG was holding onto too much knowledge about Mind versus Body....I don't perceive any desperation whatsoever. Here are some experiments to try: See if its possible for you to have ANY kind of thought that does not involve one or more of the five senses in some way. Also, see if you can experience any of the five senses as anything other than something that is referencing in your Mind. Even Science has shown, that ALL senses register in the Mind, and without a Mind that can "receive" one of the five senses, no sense is perceived. What this means relative to UG's quote, is that without Mind, no pleasure or pain is possible. All suffering, even TZU's random wasp sting, is an affect of Mind on both a function level, and a cause and effect level....on the level of function, Sensate experience do not occur without Mind, and are therefore not separate from Mind, but even on the cause and effect level, an alert, "care full" Mind that's functioning in harmony, is not likely to get stung by a Wasp, and if it does, it does not "suffer" over it. This is what UG "seems" to be alluding to: Mind is the Source of both suffering and pleasure, and the seeker of both. In talking about "the body's" lack of seeking of pleasure, he is really referencing Mind activity. As regards his speech on hopelessness, it's a kind of finger pointing, meaning it is a "method" that he is referring to, and it's not dis-similar to when I exhort people to give up "knowing", or pointing out that they "know" too much.Whatsoever you hold onto, absorbs you in Mind, whether that is some bit of Knowledge, or Understanding, or Experience, or Hope of success in accomplishing something, even if what you "know" or experience is a realization that is informed by what "seems" to be beyond mind.Peter....I love ya bro...but STOP deleting my posts in this section you phucking phucktard :-) I very much respect your "rule of law" approach, but this is an "unmoderated" section, that also allows one to post as a "guest", I did not create an account to make this post, so I am within the "rule of law" to post here :-) As an aside, I apologize for saying in the PM that I would not post anything with the Esteban account, by way of explanation, I fully intended to honor that when it was written....but Enigma's joke about not knowing what a calendar was anymore was actually pretty accurate lol....I had spent almost that entire day with no knowledge or recognition of anything, total idiocy for the whole day,so those posts just kinda happened all on their own, except for the very last one. Still though, it's probably not inappropriate to add on another week to my Steven Account and General Discussion forum ban :-/ Back to the UG Quote, you guys try for yourself, and see if you can have ANY type of thought that does not involve, or relate to the five senses, and see if you can perceive any of the five senses as registering anywhere but inside your Mind.It's not a big leap from there to seeing that all sensory perception is a Mind function, just as other types of thoughts and imaginations are.And from there, it's not a big leap to see how EVERYTHING is a function of, or inclusion of Mind.....EVERYTHING IS MIND :-) Now, go and hopelessly unknow all of that :P If you want us to un-know stuff why are you forcing this knowledge on us... (rofl) IOW you know too much Are you perceiving some kind of "Force" being applied? Seemed like a suggestion, or invitation to an exploration...as most posts here seem to be. There seems to be a prevailing view here that there is something other than Mind at play in all of THIS, even ZD, who wonderfully "gets" "not knowing, talks about not abiding in Mind.....So if there is any use to this post, it is to try and bundle everything up into one big trash bag, which is Mind, so that it can be more easily "thrown away", instead of what seems to be endless Neti Neti here.... It's is a kind of gift that I am trying to give you, to make the Throwing away, or "letting go of" less of a process. I have already said over and over to just let go of "knowing"....but it hasn't worked yet has it? :-) So maybe "undoing" idea separations like Mind, Body, Senses, Thought, etc, might move some folks closer to letting all this go into not knowing....haha, I'm giving you a nicely wrapped gift that includes EVERYTHING, in the hopes that you will throw it ALL away in one shot, instead of looking endlessly for more things to throw away.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2013 21:42:27 GMT -5
If you want us to un-know stuff why are you forcing this knowledge on us... IOW you know too much Are you perceiving some kind of "Force" being applied? Seemed like a suggestion, or invitation to an exploration...as most posts here seem to be. There seems to be a prevailing view here that there is something other than Mind at play in all of THIS, even ZD, who wonderfully "gets" "not knowing, talks about not abiding in Mind.....So if there is any use to this post, it is to try and bundle everything up into one big trash bag, which is Mind, so that it can be more easily "thrown away", instead of what seems to be endless Neti Neti here.... It's is a kind of gift that I am trying to give you, to make the Throwing away, or "letting go of" less of a process. I have already said over and over to just let go of "knowing"....but it hasn't worked yet has it? :-) So maybe "undoing" idea separations like Mind, Body, Senses, Thought, etc, might move some folks closer to letting all this go into not knowing....haha, I'm giving you a nicely wrapped gift that includes EVERYTHING, in the hopes that you will throw it ALL away in one shot, instead of looking endlessly for more things to throw away. Seemed to me like you were imparting some of Stevens knowledge... So I will take your advice and put your post in a garbage bag and kick it to the curb.
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Post by Steven on Jul 2, 2013 21:44:02 GMT -5
What does that mean to you....and why do you have that meaning? what purpose does it serve for you, and what benefit does this type of collating and categorizing supply you with, if there is any of that going on over there :-) Why are you looking for meaning? I'm not, I'm trying to get you to look at your own meaning in that post, and hopefully make the leap to seeing the pointlessness of engaging in it....ya might say I was hoping that you would recognize that the statement was misconceived, via the kind of realization that Enigma talks about. in short, it's about you, not me, I have no thoughts whatsoever about what your statement "meant". But I do hope, out of compassion, that you will let go of whatever served as the impetuous for making it.
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Post by Steven on Jul 2, 2013 21:49:46 GMT -5
Are you perceiving some kind of "Force" being applied? Seemed like a suggestion, or invitation to an exploration...as most posts here seem to be. There seems to be a prevailing view here that there is something other than Mind at play in all of THIS, even ZD, who wonderfully "gets" "not knowing, talks about not abiding in Mind.....So if there is any use to this post, it is to try and bundle everything up into one big trash bag, which is Mind, so that it can be more easily "thrown away", instead of what seems to be endless Neti Neti here.... It's is a kind of gift that I am trying to give you, to make the Throwing away, or "letting go of" less of a process. I have already said over and over to just let go of "knowing"....but it hasn't worked yet has it? :-) So maybe "undoing" idea separations like Mind, Body, Senses, Thought, etc, might move some folks closer to letting all this go into not knowing....haha, I'm giving you a nicely wrapped gift that includes EVERYTHING, in the hopes that you will throw it ALL away in one shot, instead of looking endlessly for more things to throw away. Seemed to me like you were imparting some of Stevens knowledge... So I will take your advice and put your post in a garbage bag and kick it to the curb. I also hope that you will do the same with what you post here, and everything that everyone else posts here, instead of hanging onto the bits that support your views while throwing away the ones that don't But I will repeat again, because it seems to have been missed....I am inviting an exploration, not declaring a knowledge....look for yourself and see if you can have any type of thought whatsoever that does not reference or relate to one or more of the five senses....and look for your self to see if any Sensate experience is not occurring in your mind. It's just an invitation to look, not an attack my friend.
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Post by Beingist on Jul 2, 2013 22:06:16 GMT -5
Why are you looking for meaning? I'm not, I'm trying to get you to look at your own meaning in that post, and hopefully make the leap to seeing the pointlessness of engaging in it....ya might say I was hoping that you would recognize that the statement was misconceived, via the kind of realization that Enigma talks about. in short, it's about you, not me, I have no thoughts whatsoever about what your statement "meant". But I do hope, out of compassion, that you will let go of whatever served as the impetuous for making it. What I mean is nothing more than what I said. Take it face value.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2013 22:17:56 GMT -5
Seemed to me like you were imparting some of Stevens knowledge... So I will take your advice and put your post in a garbage bag and kick it to the curb. I also hope that you will do the same with what you post here, and everything that everyone else posts here, instead of hanging onto the bits that support your views while throwing away the ones that don't But I will repeat again, because it seems to have been missed....I am inviting an exploration, not declaring a knowledge....look for yourself and see if you can have any type of thought whatsoever that does not reference or relate to one or more of the five senses....and look for your self to see if any Sensate experience is not occurring in your mind. It's just an invitation to look, not an attack my friend. Isn't that common knowledge that the nature of experiencing occurs in the mind? Or is there more?
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Post by Steven on Jul 2, 2013 22:58:33 GMT -5
I also hope that you will do the same with what you post here, and everything that everyone else posts here, instead of hanging onto the bits that support your views while throwing away the ones that don't But I will repeat again, because it seems to have been missed....I am inviting an exploration, not declaring a knowledge....look for yourself and see if you can have any type of thought whatsoever that does not reference or relate to one or more of the five senses....and look for your self to see if any Sensate experience is not occurring in your mind. It's just an invitation to look, not an attack my friend. Isn't that common knowledge that the nature of experiencing occurs in the mind? Or is there more? Give it a try ;-) Spend a few minutes trying to think a thought that does not involve, or relate to any of the five senses.... But don't just think about what the result might be...that's kinda pointless, actually give it a try for a few minutes, then tell me what "common knowledge" is there. It's an invitation to check something out ;-)
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Post by Reefs on Jul 2, 2013 23:15:01 GMT -5
Did UG have wife and kids? I would concur, this body is still interested in pleasurable sensations. pleasure happens, pain happens. The body preserves itself, but it's not the body that constantly creates strategies for avoiding pain and arranging pleasure. Right. The body can live on sawdust and glue, as U.G. used to say. But Top probably won't like that.
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