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Post by amit on Jun 27, 2013 4:56:12 GMT -5
Lets start by lumping together Awakening/Realization/Liberation as having roughly the same intended meaning and define it as no longer separate or disconnected. Is this a feeling/experience (whose?) or neither?
I suppose it was inevitable that Advaita developed some differences in understanding and interpretation. The main one seems to be between Traditional and Neo.
Traditional
There is Awakening, someone who can awaken, and a practice.
Likely to resonate with characters who have a sense of something lacking in themselves (asleep, the state to awaken from), the world, or both and see value in, and are not disillusioned about practicing. This probably applies to other spiritual paths as well.
Neo
1) There is Awakening, no-one who can awaken, and no practice.
As above but with confusion. If no-one can awaken and there is no practice, how does the awakening come about?
2) There is no Awakening, no-one who can awaken, and no practice.
Likely to resonate with those who had a doubt about something lacking in the first place and are sick and tired of failing at practice
Any experience of any of this to share?
amit
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Post by enigma on Jun 27, 2013 9:00:10 GMT -5
Lets start by lumping together Awakening/Realization/Liberation as having roughly the same intended meaning and define it as no longer separate or disconnected. Is this a feeling/experience (whose?) or neither? I suppose it was inevitable that Advaita developed some differences in understanding and interpretation. The main one seems to be between Traditional and Neo. TraditionalThere is Awakening, someone who can awaken, and a practice. Likely to resonate with characters who have a sense of something lacking in themselves (asleep, the state to awaken from), the world, or both and see value in, and are not disillusioned about practicing. This probably applies to other spiritual paths as well. Neo1) There is Awakening, no-one who can awaken, and no practice. As above but with confusion. If no-one can awaken and there is no practice, how does the awakening come about? 2) There is no Awakening, no-one who can awaken, and no practice. Likely to resonate with those who had a doubt about something lacking in the first place and are sick and tired of failing at practice Any experience of any of this to share? amit Those aren't differences in understanding and interpretation. They're different ways of talking about the same.
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Post by amit on Jun 28, 2013 2:08:33 GMT -5
Lets start by lumping together Awakening/Realization/Liberation as having roughly the same intended meaning and define it as no longer separate or disconnected. Is this a feeling/experience (whose?) or neither? I suppose it was inevitable that Advaita developed some differences in understanding and interpretation. The main one seems to be between Traditional and Neo. TraditionalThere is Awakening, someone who can awaken, and a practice. Likely to resonate with characters who have a sense of something lacking in themselves (asleep, the state to awaken from), the world, or both and see value in, and are not disillusioned about practicing. This probably applies to other spiritual paths as well. Neo1) There is Awakening, no-one who can awaken, and no practice. As above but with confusion. If no-one can awaken and there is no practice, how does the awakening come about? 2) There is no Awakening, no-one who can awaken, and no practice. Likely to resonate with those who had a doubt about something lacking in the first place and are sick and tired of failing at practice Any experience of any of this to share? amit Those aren't differences in understanding and interpretation. They're different ways of talking about the same. Hi enigma, How would you describe what you call "the same"? amit
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2013 4:13:09 GMT -5
That thing with long hands, feet and horns sitting in a chair, is a dentist.
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Post by laughter on Jun 28, 2013 4:19:48 GMT -5
That thing with long hands, feet and horns sitting in a chair, is a dentist. ... is it any wonder that there is a need for such services here??
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Post by amit on Jun 28, 2013 6:05:14 GMT -5
That thing with long hands, feet and horns sitting in a chair, is a dentist. Hi Wren, Is there a point you would like to make. If so what is it? amit
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Post by Reefs on Jun 28, 2013 7:08:52 GMT -5
Those aren't differences in understanding and interpretation. They're different ways of talking about the same. All just pointers. One pointing from the east, the other pointing from the west. No need to delineate or divvy up. Looking at what is pointed to is enough. The pointer is intended to be a head turner. If you are analyzing the pointer, you are not turning your head and missing the point.
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Post by amit on Jun 28, 2013 10:17:40 GMT -5
Those aren't differences in understanding and interpretation. They're different ways of talking about the same. All just pointers. One pointing from the east, the other pointing from the west. No need to delineate or divvy up. Looking at what is pointed to is enough. The pointer is intended to be a head turner. If you are analyzing the pointer, you are not turning your head and missing the point. Hi reefs What do you think is being pointed to? amit
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Post by amit on Jun 28, 2013 10:31:30 GMT -5
All just pointers. One pointing from the east, the other pointing from the west. No need to delineate or divvy up. Looking at what is pointed to is enough. The pointer is intended to be a head turner. If you are analyzing the pointer, you are not turning your head and missing the point. Hi reefs What do you think is being pointed to? amit PS, Is the way of looking at this topic that you have described, a prescription that has worked for you or is it also a prescription for others as well. If so what is it that you think you know about others that makes you believe you can prescribe for them? And also what is it that you think you know about yourself that enables you to be clear enough to see into the hearts and minds of others> Do you have any defense mechanisms that you are aware of. If so what are they? amit
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Post by Beingist on Jun 28, 2013 10:52:33 GMT -5
Oh, man, that looks yummy. < chops-licking smiley
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Post by enigma on Jun 28, 2013 11:06:21 GMT -5
Those aren't differences in understanding and interpretation. They're different ways of talking about the same. Hi enigma, How would you describe what you call "the same"? amit They are different ways of pointing to awakening. The pointing and looking is the focus, not the proper conceptualization, so many teachers have used many different ideas to point to precisely the same.
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Post by enigma on Jun 28, 2013 11:08:15 GMT -5
Those aren't differences in understanding and interpretation. They're different ways of talking about the same. All just pointers. One pointing from the east, the other pointing from the west. No need to delineate or divvy up. Looking at what is pointed to is enough. The pointer is intended to be a head turner. If you are analyzing the pointer, you are not turning your head and missing the point. Eggzactamente.
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Post by amit on Jun 28, 2013 12:03:51 GMT -5
Hi enigma, How would you describe what you call "the same"? amit They are different ways of pointing to awakening. The pointing and looking is the focus, not the proper conceptualization, so many teachers have used many different ideas to point to precisely the same. Hi enigma, In the Neo(2) example there is no such thing as Awakening. This seems to be based on the sort of implications of "All is One" considered in other threads. What has been your experience? Have you attended any meetings by either Traditional or Neo speakers and if so what did you make of them? Was there any resonance for you or whatever term you prefer? amit
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Post by enigma on Jun 28, 2013 23:42:35 GMT -5
They are different ways of pointing to awakening. The pointing and looking is the focus, not the proper conceptualization, so many teachers have used many different ideas to point to precisely the same. Hi enigma, In the Neo(2) example there is no such thing as Awakening. This seems to be based on the sort of implications of "All is One" considered in other threads. What has been your experience? Have you attended any meetings by either Traditional or Neo speakers and if so what did you make of them? Was there any resonance for you or whatever term you prefer? amit Never been to a meeting, no. It's legit to talk about an awakening event, and also to say there is no awakening because awakening is the realization that there is nobody to awaken. It's the realization that the person is an illusion, and this realization is the awakening referred to. It's not actually true that somebody realizes this, though we can talk about it that way. The two statements are not really contradictory once the difficulty in talking about it is understood.
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Post by amit on Jun 29, 2013 2:19:14 GMT -5
Hi enigma, In the Neo(2) example there is no such thing as Awakening. This seems to be based on the sort of implications of "All is One" considered in other threads. What has been your experience? Have you attended any meetings by either Traditional or Neo speakers and if so what did you make of them? Was there any resonance for you or whatever term you prefer? amit Never been to a meeting, no. It's legit to talk about an awakening event, and also to say there is no awakening because awakening is the realization that there is nobody to awaken. It's the realization that the person is an illusion, and this realization is the awakening referred to. It's not actually true that somebody realizes this, though we can talk about it that way. The two statements are not really contradictory once the difficulty in talking about it is understood. Hi enigma, Understood. Thanks. Lets still use pronouns for ease of communication. Has it occurred for you. If so how would you describe "the realization that the person is an illusion" Is it a feeling/experience (whose?) or neither? What would you say about it? amit
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