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Post by enigma on Dec 17, 2012 21:20:29 GMT -5
I wouldn't suggest that you don't try or that you don't look, only that you don't always see. If you don't see a source for your feelings, it's because that source remains hidden from your conscious awareness. Feelings can indeed be very simple, like the delight of the infant in sparkly things. No deep contemplation required for that, but also no mystery as to the source. Adults are more complex and most feeling is formed within a complex of thought, belief and imagination. Much of that feeling content is not understood, and yet it is pulled toward us or pushed away as though it was endowed with it's own independent power to please or to punish. If there's something for me to see, then I will see it. The fact is that I don't and while I am open to some unconscious awareness of the source of my feelings, nothing surfaces. For me to question my feelings beyond what I observe would be an attempt to question feelings in general. I've done that and while I admit that feeling are awesome, I am open to there being another type of feeling. I am open for anything including that everything is quite alright the way they are in this regards. Again, if there is something amiss, I will see it......... What makes you believe you see something that I don't? Have you ever been wrong about others? I have been. Have I ever been wrong? Sure, I've been totally wrong, and more often than not, I'm just a bit off the mark. OTOH, this is what I do. I study people and I try to understand, and I try to help when I can. I've been doing that for 30 years and I'm much better at it than I am at playing the stock market. If there's something for you to see, you may see it or you may not. What I've found in those 30 years is: 1) The overwhelming majority of humans are barely conscious enough to function adequately according to their basic programming. 2) All of them are, by definition, convinced that they are fully conscious and quite sane. 3) Mind is the most miraculous instrument in the universe, and is itself proof of God. It is capable of astounding feats of creativity and imagination and compassion, and equally astounding self deception, ignorance and cruelty.
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Post by enigma on Dec 17, 2012 21:24:18 GMT -5
There is nothing to fear from the void, that is the mind resisting becoming quiet. Quiet the mind. Let go of the resistance. What is, IS. What you are cannot die, only what you imagine can die, and that is a good thing to let die. While you are seeking clarity the external details tend to go to hell until you find the ground of being. Quiet the mind and move forward with a quiet mind and all will sort itself out. Speaking of myself, what was seen as terrifying was the truth that there is no god AND me. That there was noone watching over me or my children or life itself. It looks like the void but it really is the emptiness of life. The seeing that life does not care or not care. This was terrifying to me but has become simply what is. It also gave way to the observing that life does it's caring thru me. It fills itself, creates itself, thru me. It's not about quieting the mind. There is nothing we can do to see what is. It happens. There is something we can stop doing. We can stop seeing what isn't.
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Post by whiteshaman on Dec 17, 2012 21:32:57 GMT -5
Speaking of myself, what was seen as terrifying was the truth that there is no god AND me. That there was noone watching over me or my children or life itself. It looks like the void but it really is the emptiness of life. The seeing that life does not care or not care. This was terrifying to me but has become simply what is. It also gave way to the observing that life does it's caring thru me. It fills itself, creates itself, thru me. It's not about quieting the mind. There is nothing we can do to see what is. It happens. There is something we can stop doing. We can stop seeing what isn't. That happens.
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Post by nobody on Dec 17, 2012 21:34:52 GMT -5
If there's something for me to see, then I will see it. The fact is that I don't and while I am open to some unconscious awareness of the source of my feelings, nothing surfaces. For me to question my feelings beyond what I observe would be an attempt to question feelings in general. I've done that and while I admit that feeling are awesome, I am open to there being another type of feeling. I am open for anything including that everything is quite alright the way they are in this regards. Again, if there is something amiss, I will see it......... What makes you believe you see something that I don't? Have you ever been wrong about others? I have been. Have I ever been wrong? Sure, I've been totally wrong, and more often than not, I'm just a bit off the mark. OTOH, this is what I do. I study people and I try to understand, and I try to help when I can. I've been doing that for 30 years and I'm much better at it than I am at playing the stock market. Enigma is also really good at making rap songs and breakdancing. He's just really modest about it.
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Post by whiteshaman on Dec 17, 2012 21:40:12 GMT -5
If there's something for me to see, then I will see it. The fact is that I don't and while I am open to some unconscious awareness of the source of my feelings, nothing surfaces. For me to question my feelings beyond what I observe would be an attempt to question feelings in general. I've done that and while I admit that feeling are awesome, I am open to there being another type of feeling. I am open for anything including that everything is quite alright the way they are in this regards. Again, if there is something amiss, I will see it......... What makes you believe you see something that I don't? Have you ever been wrong about others? I have been. Have I ever been wrong? Sure, I've been totally wrong, and more often than not, I'm just a bit off the mark. OTOH, this is what I do. I study people and I try to understand, and I try to help when I can. I've been doing that for 30 years and I'm much better at it than I am at playing the stock market. If there's something for you to see, you may see it or you may not. What I've found in those 30 years is: 1) The overwhelming majority of humans are barely conscious enough to function adequately according to their basic programming. 2) All of them are, by definition, convinced that they are fully conscious and quite sane. 3) Mind is the most miraculous instrument in the universe, and is itself proof of God. It is capable of astounding feats of creativity and imagination and compassion, and equally astounding self deception, ignorance and cruelty. Yes but while you may inadvertently help someone it usually just happens. With me "I" is conscious of itself....that's all. Exposed so to speak. Nothing has replaced it.
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Post by topology on Dec 17, 2012 21:54:15 GMT -5
There is something we can stop doing. We can stop seeing what isn't. That happens. It happens, but you can make yourself "accident prone". Shooting up heroine or indulging in a victim mentality is less likely to have it happen than someone who is courting the realization intentionally through introspection and reducing the internal noise.
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Post by whiteshaman on Dec 17, 2012 22:06:26 GMT -5
It happens, but you can make yourself "accident prone". Shooting up heroine or indulging in a victim mentality is less likely to have it happen than someone who is courting the realization intentionally through introspection and reducing the internal noise. All looking ever did was allow me to find out why I was looking. I can't take credit for something I was compelled to do. I had no choice.
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Post by enigma on Dec 17, 2012 22:20:06 GMT -5
Have I ever been wrong? Sure, I've been totally wrong, and more often than not, I'm just a bit off the mark. OTOH, this is what I do. I study people and I try to understand, and I try to help when I can. I've been doing that for 30 years and I'm much better at it than I am at playing the stock market. Enigma is also really good at making rap songs and breakdancing. He's just really modest about it. Why would I wanna make all the other rappers here jealous, ya know?
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Post by enigma on Dec 17, 2012 22:21:59 GMT -5
Have I ever been wrong? Sure, I've been totally wrong, and more often than not, I'm just a bit off the mark. OTOH, this is what I do. I study people and I try to understand, and I try to help when I can. I've been doing that for 30 years and I'm much better at it than I am at playing the stock market. If there's something for you to see, you may see it or you may not. What I've found in those 30 years is: 1) The overwhelming majority of humans are barely conscious enough to function adequately according to their basic programming. 2) All of them are, by definition, convinced that they are fully conscious and quite sane. 3) Mind is the most miraculous instrument in the universe, and is itself proof of God. It is capable of astounding feats of creativity and imagination and compassion, and equally astounding self deception, ignorance and cruelty. Yes but while you may inadvertently help someone it usually just happens. With me "I" is conscious of itself....that's all. Exposed so to speak. Nothing has replaced it. ..........What?
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Post by topology on Dec 17, 2012 22:23:36 GMT -5
It happens, but you can make yourself "accident prone". Shooting up heroine or indulging in a victim mentality is less likely to have it happen than someone who is courting the realization intentionally through introspection and reducing the internal noise. All looking ever did was allow me to find out why I was looking. I can't take credit for something I was compelled to do. I had no choice. And all I can do is throw spaghetti at the wall and hope a noodle sticks. Advising midnight to quiet the mind may be a futile endeavor, but it is what I am compelled to do in off chance something in him becomes inspired to follow the suggestion.
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Post by whiteshaman on Dec 17, 2012 22:26:04 GMT -5
Yes but while you may inadvertently help someone it usually just happens. With me "I" is conscious of itself....that's all. Exposed so to speak. Nothing has replaced it. ..........What? Never mind....14,600 posts and your own website and now a history of judging me says you probably won't hear me anyways....lol Moving on...................
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Post by whiteshaman on Dec 17, 2012 22:26:54 GMT -5
All looking ever did was allow me to find out why I was looking. I can't take credit for something I was compelled to do. I had no choice. And all I can do is throw spaghetti at the wall and hope a noodle sticks. Advising midnight to quiet the mind may be a futile endeavor, but it is what I am compelled to do in off chance something in him becomes inspired to follow the suggestion. I understand.
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Post by enigma on Dec 17, 2012 22:34:13 GMT -5
Never mind....14,600 posts and your own website and now a history of judging me says you probably won't hear me anyways....lol Moving on................... That strikes me as callous and unkind.
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Post by silence on Dec 17, 2012 23:23:46 GMT -5
Complaining about not existing is precisely what keeps recharging the sense of self. You get on the computer for an hour or more and you forget to complain or have self referencing thoughts. Things get quiet. Quiet leads to fear. You return to find solutions to your problem because suffering might be painful but at least it's not as bad as falling into the void right? Things get quiet I guess yeah, but it's more like things stop existing. When I come off the computer I feel awful. I forget what I've been doing all day and I need to snap myself back into reality to become less of a walking zombie. How do I know that the void you are speaking of is the same one I speak about? Cos maybe you are talking about a void that doesn't feel like one is drifting into madness, while the one I seem to sense feels like total loss of mental stability and a murky pool of suppressed emotional pain. Are we talking about the same void? An utterly depressing blackness bleak beyond description? I feel like when I am not thinking about myself I am drifting into annihilation. Btw, thanks for the replies, it's been very educational, especially Zendancer and Andrewtemp There isn't a void thing we can talk about. There is the minds reaction to what it sees as it's own annihilation. Going insane, irrational terror, purposeless anxiety, an eternity of purgatory like suffering etc. etc. You mentioned the void a long time ago and I responded simply by saying to explore it. Nothing has actually changed since then. You're just making horizonatal movements until you do.
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Post by silence on Dec 17, 2012 23:26:38 GMT -5
Never mind....14,600 posts and your own website and now a history of judging me says you probably won't hear me anyways....lol Moving on................... That strikes me as callous and unkind. Don't worry. There was a "lol". Nothing to see here.
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