fear
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Post by fear on Mar 5, 2009 14:37:42 GMT -5
When I look back on when I first became attracted to the idea of enlightenment, I remember being so into it. I would read whatever I could get my hands on and have my nose buried in books until the wee hours of the morning.
I absorbed everything one teacher had to say and when I was done with him I moved onto the next teacher and just kept moving on and on because one seemed fresher than the other. I eventually realized that everyone was pretty much saying the same thing and I hit a brick wall because I had all the knowledge about enlightenment but didn't know what else to do so I took a break from abosorbing knowledge and just tried to be in the moment.
I recently found some videos that I had saved on my hard drive by Adyashati and U.G. For some reason it struck me in a very different way. I actually understood what they were saying and I totally agreed. It is the search for enlightnement that keeps us from ever attaining it.
The search ensures the continuity of mind because it's constantly trying new methods and gives us the illusion that we are getting somewhere.
Awakening does not need your help, it is your help that is keeping it from waking up. When the search stops, what has always been there will reveal itself.
In my case I find that I don't know what to do with my life, I find that my will is dying slowly. Where is there to go? What is there to do? And if there is anything, why do it? This feeling is quite scary and I don't even know why.
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Post by lightmystic on Mar 5, 2009 16:04:02 GMT -5
Great post.
Yeah, it is definitely scary at first, losing everything to hold onto.
Sounds like something goods is happening...
Do you want to give more details about it?
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anonji
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Posts: 62
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Post by anonji on Mar 5, 2009 18:18:11 GMT -5
Fear,
Let me respond from a different perspective. "Knowing" is the side of life where we are trapped. It holds our conditioning and is our prison. And yet we try to "know" as much as possible about the spiritual life before we commit to it. The searching always gets in the way and blocks the entrance. It's hard to give up the search, but if you do, you find the present moment where the spiritual life resides. Searching is always future related; it seeks something that is not known in the present moment and prevents the present moment from being seen. It is something of a paradox; but if you drop the seeking for a while and just be watchful of the present moment, you may find the elusive muse. There is always fear when entering the unknown, but rest assured that others have gone through it and it is the right way.
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fear
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Post by fear on Mar 6, 2009 15:54:29 GMT -5
It's not hard to give up the search, it just gives up because you've searched and searched and you keep finding yourself in the same place and eventually you just get tired and there is nothing left to do but give up.
You cannot make yourself give up. When your whole being knows that there is nothing you can do it just gives up. I'm not there yet but I keep having moments of hopelessness where like I said before, I don't know what to do with my life. It's like the doer is fading away and what's scary is that everyone seems to know what they want from life and they know where they want to be and I'm just here confused, not having the will or the drive to do anything and I feel like I'm being left behind. I don't care about my retirement savings plan, I don't care about my status is society. I refuse to be burdened by any of that.
Another thing is that I find myself going against the grain of society. I can see many perspectives. If someone is a murderer, society wants him to be murdered in return, I want him helped because I see someone suffering. I can see that everyone in the world thinks that they are good, because they cannot see their flaws because they don't want to see themselves. They want to point the finger and say "that's the bad guy". Where I would say "I'm the bad guy". There is no evil outside of me.
It's so hard to put all this into words because I can't possibly cover every angle. When I feel it, it makes sense, when I write it, I'm always missing something.
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anonji
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Post by anonji on Mar 6, 2009 18:10:09 GMT -5
I know there is a lot to ruminate over. There's nothing you can do about society's expectations other than carry them around with you. But it's better to carry a light load when there is uncertainty or confusion. The best thing is to let unfold what has already started in your life. When that is done you will have a better sense of direction.
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Post by Sid on Mar 7, 2009 0:41:54 GMT -5
We search because we assume something is wrong with us...and therefore we feel a need to correct this problem.
However the search prevents us from seeing that we are OK just as we are...and when that happens we exist in the PRESENT rather then seeking a future solution.
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Post by someNOTHING! on Mar 7, 2009 2:51:17 GMT -5
Hi Fear,
It's Beautiful to hear your story, even though I'm sure it doesn't seem so to the little you. The Path inward....you've been on the trail of pursuit for Truth, and yes it does get exhausting; doing so is basically a dismantling of what you now "think" "you" is. Stuck in the field of thought, trying to escape, trying to think about not thinking, thinking about what Truth might be with the tools of words, and all the rest....slipping away,,, all the thoughts on Truth become useless. So true--haha.
You once asked about what my last thought was before Awakening...and in a way, here you have clarified your task very well, so if I may be so bold as to address that question to see where it might go. That's right! Time for a biographical egotistical rant! Wahooo!
I searched and searched, took rests, walked the Himalayas, found metaphorical extensions of my understanding being played out in life, shunned existence that so many took to be "real"....the search went through book after book, rejecting this and misunderstanding that, challenging, being challenged, tail spinning down down down....no one to understand or to understand me...I went the loner route. The guru stuff never appealed to me….nothing ever really matched my hard headed nature, I suppose. Search, rest, this, that,,,,exhausting. Of course, in hindsight, It’s All Good, but you won’t be able to get ahead of YourSelf, if you know what I mean. The path to Here is just that ridiculous.
Anyway, one day, after about 3 years of this falling apart, and while spending 2-3 months in a small primitive dwelling in a bean field in some foothills, with no electricity or water, I was hanging in my “cocoon” (a hammock I had suspended from the worn rafters of this mud-stone "house") reading---again---and the words, "I don't know" came across my awareness, and instantly, what I might possibly explain as a “crack” split wide open, the veil was lifted, whatever. Cascade effect. I came to know the Truest meaning of those words, “I don’t know”. Wow! Pretty much anything I read on the subject of spirituality after that was completely understood for what it was AND for what it wasn't. I truly began to see the "way of the world" and the body/mind’s place in it. Could have started a nice bonfire of words at that point, if you know what I mean.
Since then, this body/mind has loved truly Understanding the Way, and Its Timelessness and being fascinated by the enterprise/game of life. Stillness is always Here, always Now, but not if little you're there trying to "think" about it or control it. Brotha Ramana Marharshi and other biggies do point at this over and over. There’s a very direct, though not painless (to the ego), path. The fact of the matter is that It is truly quite simple, right Here, and Nothing “really special”…..a Stillness unperturbed by the on goings of thought/mind/ego in the world. It Sees All: your mind and its attachments, the pain, suffering, and misunderstanding of the world, the secret inhibitions, and all the rest in the “dreamscape”. It Is, and You are It, but the little you (thought/mind/ego) can never Be It. The ego is a movement, a process. (Hint: The very fact that You can Consciously watch little your thoughts is really quite the point.)
So, in that sense, yes, there’s no use trying, but you will, if you feel you have to (What is that?). The Desire is too strong, and will eventually start nagging you again. It calls you home, to come full circle and see what You truly Are. Ironically, It calls you to the Path that leads to the Present (nice little pun) that “you”’re never in, but You Truly Are (i.e., Being). The little you is just a multi-faceted, culturally encoded, exquisitely and uniquely crafted bunch of layers of thought that make up a silly little bundle of fascinatingly paradoxical strategies for making sure the separative self remains intact and stays alive (i.e., asleep)….the stuff dreams are made of. Such clever stuff!! Haha! And just as you wake up from those cold sweat sleeps sometimes, you too can Awaken, and say “WTF was that all about? What was I on about? How could I not see it all along? ” And to these and many other questions, you’ll often repeat “I don’t know”, but with a small grin, and then let it go, knowing it to be the little bugger trying to step in for an encore appearance in the dream....or who knows, maybe you're just playing with the dreamstuff for a spin.
Trying to put it in words is good as a reflective device and is part of the process of inquiry, but can also be a part of the play in life, once Understood. It's the path inward you're following, so now the words are sticky, full of "meaning" and "solidity", attaching themselves to others and reconstituting the holographic dream. Watch that monkey mind!! One might call the Path “psychological suicide”, and ego doesn’t want any part of that, but for some Mystery, you’re doing it. Those moments of peace are resting points along the way. It’s a journey. Take them understanding your task is not done until it's done. Take the rest, and with the lessons learned in the previous phases, you will find a deeper source of energy that enables the next leg. You'll Know when you're done. Ooooh, you'll Know!
Sorry if my last message to you was misunderstood. I’m always rooting for you.
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Post by souley on Mar 8, 2009 15:23:08 GMT -5
I still dont understand all the talk about that the search keeps us from awakening/realizing. Why would it? Searching the wrong way wont lead anywhere, one might say. But when it is noticed that it is not leading anywhere, and that search is ended, you are not at the same place as where you started. For me the search has definitely taken me to a place that is miles away from where I started. It is of course also a matter of what we mean when we use words like "search". But to want it, and try for it, is not a bad thing in my experience. But there are many different ways to do it and some ways might have to be given up to find out what works.
And what works might be "nothing", but to come to that realization through some failed searching, isn't that actually a successful search? I am not "fully realized" yet or whatever words are appropriate, but this is my experience.
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fear
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Post by fear on Mar 9, 2009 2:42:21 GMT -5
Souley, when you say that "the search has taken me miles from where I started", who is the me? That me that you speak of feels that it has made great progress. That me is the ego. That same me is what you are trying to get rid of. So your search has only strengthened the me. The me will never be enlightened so basically you will never be enlightened. That's why the whole thing has to go, you and everything with it.
Now don't try and stop it because trying to stop it is another form of searching, searching for a way to stop it. Just allow everything to be as it is.
Somenothing, I'm on the loner route as you were, except for this site, I have no one around me that understands me. I can't believe that they don't understand me especially when they cannot defeat me in an arguement. They always end up saying things like, "you analyze too much", or "you have to accept some things without questioning them", when I have them cornered.
I love how the body is connected to the mind. Like when you deprived your body of luxury, in the primitive mud house in the bean field. I've found that the body can follow the mind and vice versa. So when the body suffers, the mind aligns with it. Like the time I attempted to climb Mt Kenya. I had altitude sickness and just felt terrible. This suffering caused me to reach in and find strength to go on. At one point I was as in the moment as I ever was. I saw a flash of bright light, (maybe a chakra opening, still don't know for sure) but I was told later that those behind me couldn't keep up with my pace. I made it to 4300m and it was unbearable to go higher but after that trip something was different, can't put my finger on what exactly but the world as I saw it appeared a little different after that.
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Post by souley on Mar 9, 2009 3:02:46 GMT -5
I don't know if I should try to defend my statement, since that would be ego But the act of observing a change in life, does that imply that an ego is doing the observation? The real souley might be capable of observing things too. Why would progress imply ego?
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Post by lightmystic on Mar 9, 2009 10:43:42 GMT -5
Souley and Fear,
I appreciate both your points. While it can be a useful pointer to say there's no path and there's no individual who can Awaken and so everything your doing is a waste of time, I find that it's ultimately not really true. It's important that one is aware that what they are doing is dissolving themselves, but it's blatently obvious from souley's posts that that is what he is doing. Once there is a recognition that it's the self being dissolved, then there has to be a recognition that that takes place over time.
I had a view much like yours, fear, and it led to endless frustration. If it's all available now, why can't I get it for real right now, even if I have to die to get it? That's fine...
But really that "I want it right now" approach was an attempt to avoid parts of myself that I didn't want to accept. It's all okay, even the process, because it REALLY IS a process.
Now, there is a real value, as you seem to be alluding to, fear, in realizing that to even want this "Enlightenment thing", you must know what it is you are looking for at some level. What you both are looking for is a feeling, and that feeling must already be in you to even know to want it. Thus, it's already there, but it's also too quiet and subtle to be able to be recognized and appreciated. That said, putting the attention on that feeling, recognizing that it is already going on in you is what allows it clarify and stronger, like a sapling growing into a tree...
...that is when the experience becomes clear enough, ripe enough, for the recognition to happen.
It's not that there's no person in that you won't be there to experience Enlightenment. It's more like there never was a person to begin with, and you are just able to realize that. Thus, the "person-ness", the "I" that was there before, which is what you are (the Awareness) is still there, but it's realized never to have been attributed to a person in a limited way. The "person" is still there, but is realized to never have been individualized (as a way of talking about it).
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fear
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Post by fear on Mar 9, 2009 14:00:23 GMT -5
LM, I like your analogy of the sappling growing into a tree and I can't argue with you about the rest of what you say because I really don't know. Everything I know is just an idea or speculation but the truth of it is I really don't know until I experience it for myself.
Souley, I can't say that you are wrong, but you expressed a misunderstanding and continue to express misunderstanding about progress being the ego. I don't have any definite answers but I just know as in a feeling (as LM mentioned) that my search is my problem, not that I will stop searching, because this is what is happening and I will just let it happen. You seem to have your own way, so keep progressing, maybe there is something to get. I don't know for sure that there isn't.
I realized that I don't know anything as being true, all I can do is move away from untruth. Everything else is just an idea. Everytime I feel that I'm getting somewhere and I feel good about it, I know intuitively that this isn't it. How can it be? How can I feel good about still not being here. And I know that anthing I accept as truth is just an idea of truth.
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dave
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Post by dave on Mar 12, 2009 12:20:58 GMT -5
What's preventing your awakening? Take away the "your" and what do you have left?
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dave
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Posts: 79
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Post by dave on Mar 12, 2009 12:25:30 GMT -5
Better yet- take away the "your" and what is left?-, not what do you have. You is all in the head.
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Post by lightmystic on Mar 13, 2009 9:57:37 GMT -5
Sounds good in theory, but it's not an intellectual game...
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