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Post by therealfake on Mar 21, 2011 22:12:46 GMT -5
Why is it necessary to use an illusory thought to point at and clarify an illusory thought? It's the illusion of thought, which blocks the truth... The crux of the matter is 'thought' as illusion' not the thought of truth or awakening... Truth is an illusory thought is it not? Pointing at it is misconceived. If truth is not an illusory thought and it is as you say not an experience, then what? As I've said a gazillion times, it's a realization. Seems to me you're getting hung up on this illusory thought biznis. Thoughts are just thoughts. They're useful and may be true or false within their own context. Some ideas point at the moon and some point at your feet. The illusion is believing that thoughts are somehow ultimately True and that they must say something about what you actually are, or refer accurately to that which is prior to thought. The idea that a thought can actually obscure Truth is just another thought, and it's not actually true. A naked woman standing alongside the road can't actually cause you to wreck your car unless you pay attention to her to the exclusion of all else. Belief that there is another way of perceiving, re: 'realization', is the highest 'idea' of which the imagined self, is capable of. That's because it contains a hint of recognition that, the illusory self, is not the true self. It's a long way up the conceptual mountain, but nevertheless a concept. You want to turn realization into a 'knowing' rather than what is essential, the learning that you do not know... Your trying to keep knowledge through realization, for yourself, and in doing so, your losing it. Everything you have taught yourself about truth, has made truth more and more obscure to you. Even though you've echoed these same thoughts time after time for other folks. Truth is beyond semblance of any kind, even your realizations. And yet all that stands between you and the eternal in you, is your learning of what is illusory and your attempts to undo the true. Naked ladies aside... LOL
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Post by someNOTHING! on Mar 21, 2011 22:28:53 GMT -5
I like this one.
It points in the right direction as for we can not know Truth. So, some point to IT as beyond thoughts/beliefs/knowledge, perhaps as in some kind of thing we can develop the capacity for (schools of becoming), while others may point to IT as prior to thoughts/beliefs/knowledge, perhaps as in some kind of returning to the source (schools of ? -my brain just went blank, hehe). It's likely to be ebbs and flows of both as the contortions of the mind continue to try to wiggle off the hook. It seems that both are ideally supposed to lead to the realization that IT is always as IT IS, and perfectly so.
Tricky stuff!
Carry on!
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Post by zendancer on Mar 21, 2011 23:29:19 GMT -5
As I've said a gazillion times, it's a realization. Seems to me you're getting hung up on this illusory thought biznis. Thoughts are just thoughts. They're useful and may be true or false within their own context. Some ideas point at the moon and some point at your feet. The illusion is believing that thoughts are somehow ultimately True and that they must say something about what you actually are, or refer accurately to that which is prior to thought. The idea that a thought can actually obscure Truth is just another thought, and it's not actually true. A naked woman standing alongside the road can't actually cause you to wreck your car unless you pay attention to her to the exclusion of all else. Belief that there is another way of perceiving, re: 'realization', is the highest 'idea' of which the imagined self, is capable of. That's because it contains a hint of recognition that, the illusory self, is not the true self. It's a long way up the conceptual mountain, but nevertheless a concept. You want to turn realization into a 'knowing' rather than what is essential, the learning that you do not know... Your trying to keep knowledge through realization, for yourself, and in doing so, your losing it. Everything you have taught yourself about truth, has made truth more and more obscure to you. Even though you've echoed these same thoughts time after time for other folks. Truth is beyond semblance of any kind, even your realizations. And yet all that stands between you and the eternal in you, is your learning of what is illusory and your attempts to undo the true. Naked ladies aside... LOL OMG, where is my Zen stick? I need to trigger a realization!
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Post by enigma on Mar 22, 2011 1:27:56 GMT -5
Maybe we could just accidentally ban him or sumthin? Hehe.
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Post by therealfake on Mar 22, 2011 9:16:23 GMT -5
Realization is not the truth, nor does it make the truth known, but believing it does, blocks the truth as well it should.
Holding onto that single illusion is not possible without making all illusions real, as they are not different.
At RT their realization that there is 'no self' is nothing more than seeing through an illusion, but then it creates another illusory idea of a self that attains liberation, clarity leading to another illusion...
But in this forum that lesson is mis- perceived and is wrongly embraced as truth...
The truth can only be experienced, not by an 'experiencer' but as pure experience devoid of any sense of separation or idea of a self.
The truth cannot be known and in pure experience without a knower does the truth shine.
PS Zendancer, I can lend you my Jo staff, it leaves a bigger welt... LOL
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2011 10:02:04 GMT -5
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Post by michaelsees on Mar 22, 2011 10:07:26 GMT -5
Realization is not the truth, nor does it make the truth known, but believing it does, blocks the truth as well it should. But in this forum that lesson is mis- perceived and is wrongly embraced as truth... The truth can only be experienced, not by an 'experiencer' but as pure experience devoid of any sense of separation or idea of a self. The truth cannot be known and in pure experience without a knower does the truth shine. That's my boy TRF is getting it but we shall not go down experience road again or do we need to? Michale
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